Director Layer & Old System Gunlayer, 1st Class

[nbroadarrowz]

Hi to all,
Does anyone know what these badges look like?
Clip from Admiralty Fleet Order 654 of 1944
Thanks
Barry

[mike_vee]

You've probably already seen this :

https://rmhistorical.com/files/conte...ges%20V5-2.pdf

.

[Buttonman]

Crossed guns, star above, star below.
Gunlayer 1st class, 1909-48.
Director layer, 1935-48.
Badges & Insignia of the British Armed Services.

David.

[nbroadarrowz]

Thanks for the link. I had read it before and with this new context it is starting to become clearer.
Barry

[nbroadarrowz]

In relation to the list in Post 1,
If a badge pattern 108 is crossed guns with star above and star below,
what is badge pattern 114? 'Chief Petty Officers, others'

Thanks
Barry

[Buttonman]

Originally Posted by nbroadarrowz

In relation to the list in Post 1,
If a badge pattern 108 is crossed guns with star above and star below,
what is badge pattern 114? 'Chief Petty Officers, others'

Thanks
Barry

Patrol Service - Gunlayer 1941-48 - crossed guns with star above, letter P below. Same source as post 3.
What is the date of your list on post 1?

David.

[nbroadarrowz]

The list in post 1 is dated 1944.

I am also cross referencing with numbers with this 1944 NZ Navy Store list, (please excuse the hand written notes). The titles to badges 108 and 114 are doubled up and I thought that the last one was a mistake, but this entry is the same for the 1943 and 1945 stores lists.

As you can see the badges 111 are RNPS gunlayer but badges 114 and 115 are for 'DIRECTOR LAYER & OLD SYSTEM GUN LAYER, 1st CLASS CPO OTHERS and PO OTHERS'.

[nbroadarrowz]

This list is from the 1942 NZ Navy Stores and shows the Directors and Layers as separate entries.
The badge pattern number and design did not change but the use and who used the badge changed over time.
We know that the Director Layers badge pattern 108/109 was crossed guns with star above and below
Gun Layers badge at this time was crossed guns with a star above, pattern 110/111 so that leaves the "OTHERS".
I suspect that this badge 114/115 is a single gun with a star above.
By 1943 and in the 1944 and 1945 the stores lists categorized the Gun layer 1st class as are being referred to as the 'OLD System'.

Any thoughts are welcome.

[nbroadarrowz]

https://www.naval-history.net/WW2aaRN-qBadges136-7.JPG
This link (thanks Mike Vee) details Director layer and Gun layer 1st class as crossed guns with star above and star below. (108/109)
Chief Petty Officers and Petty Officers , others. Single gun with star above.(114/115)
Barry

[Buttonman]

Originally Posted by nbroadarrowz

This list is from the 1942 NZ Navy Stores and shows the Directors and Layers as separate entries.
The badge pattern number and design did not change but the use and who used the badge changed over time.
We know that the Director Layers badge pattern 108/109 was crossed guns with star above and below
Gun Layers badge at this time was crossed guns with a star above, pattern 110/111 so that leaves the "OTHERS".
I suspect that this badge 114/115 is a single gun with a star above.
By 1943 and in the 1944 and 1945 the stores lists categorized the Gun layer 1st class as are being referred to as the 'OLD System'.

Any thoughts are welcome.

The crossed guns with star above badge was for Gunlayer 2nd class 1909-35 & Gunlayer 1935-39.

David.