Interesting grave - Corps of Military Police

[gurkharifles]

I was walking through a local church yard and noticed this headstone. It's clearly a Commonwealth War Grave Commission headstone - and it also looked as if the stone itself had been recently replaced ( or someone had done an excellent job of cleaning it! ) - but the other thing that struck me was the date of his death 29th November 1918 - so presumably died of wounds received before the armistice, presumably having been sent to England to have his wounds treated? Also his unit Corps of Military Police - suffered "only" 451 deaths in the whole of WW1 - so his must been amongst the very last of his corps? Would love to know more about him. Tim

[grey_green_acorn]

There is a record on the CWGC site with a reference to ‘transfer to Labour Corps (439867)

https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/fi.../H%20F%20WEAR/

Tim

Hi Tim, interesting topic, the CWGC do replace headstones, one of my ancestors in France was recently re-done, not sure what the criteria is. This does look like a new stone, not sure if they re-furbish or not. Regards Mark

[crest-insignia]

From the CWGC website;

In many cases, where the stone is basically sound, it is economically and environmentally good practice to re-engrave without removing the headstone. Repairs, such as stone inserts, mortar repair and re-engraving are carried out as part of our conservation-led approach, and replacement of a headstone should be the last option.

Where there is no choice but to replace the headstone, a suitable replacement stone is used. When the original stones are no longer available, we try to source the most appropriate stone type, both visually and geologically. Ensuring the headstones are of the same stone type gives the cemetery a uniformity which enhances our founding principles of equality of treatment.

Across our sites there are more than 25 different types of headstone, most of which are engraved at the Commission’s headstone production facility near Arras in France. Our conservation-based approach ensures headstones are only replaced when absolutely necessary, typically some 3,000 a year, while in France and Belgium alone around 15,000 headstones are re-engraved each year.

[Hoot]

Military Mounted Police, Military Foot Police, Corps of Military Police, yes, but "Military Police Corps" is a non-title to the best of my knowledge.

[gurkharifles]

Hoot you may well be right - I don't think they became the Corps of Military Police until 1926. So it's another mystery why the headstone reads Military Police Corps ?

[grey_green_acorn]

The original CWGC registration documents dated 1921 do show Military Police Corps

One document may indicate that he transferred to or perhaps from the Labour Corps?

Tim

[SemperFi]

Tim, given his date of death and being at home, it’s also strongly possible he died from sickness (Spanish flu in particular). Unfortunately I have an older Soldiers Died in the Great War CD that I can no longer run. If you find someone with a more recent version, perhaps they can do a look up, as the SDGW many times has more specifics on causes of death.

Jay

[gurkharifles]

I hadn’t really appreciated before that soldiers who died outside of a conflict would still be entitled to a CWGC headstone? What are the rules for qualification?

[SemperFi]

Tim, here’s a link to the CWGC’s eligibility policy: http://https://www.cwgc.org/media/p4...on_current.pdf

[dumdum]

Hi

Very interesting. I have seen personnel files that often contain phrases such as :" Death attributable to War Service" then with the notation" Eligible Plaque and Scroll"

These graves, I understand, then become a "war grave" even if the burial takes place in the home country and are part of the CWGC mandate.

For ex-servicemen who die after having left the service (but whose death does not fall under the above category), I'm told, they can be buried in what is termed a Non-War Grave. A friend in New Zealand told me this when I was researching some of my mother's relatives.

The CWGC is/ was looked after by the Dept of Internal Affairs and the card for the Non-War Grave was headed "I.A. 28" (Internal Affairs [Form] 28)

[gurkharifles]

The more I look into the works and rationale of the CWGC the more impressed I am - I found this on one website : Occasionally you will see a different design of headstone. Polish and Czech soldiers who served in WW2 have a notably different style. But the one difference that attracts the most questions is the headstones that have clipped corners. These are used for service men and women who do not qualify for war grave status for example casualties who died outside the qualifying period (0clipped-grave4.08.14 to 31.08.21 for WW1 or 03.09.39 to 31.12.47 for WW2). They are sometimes referred to incorrectly as ‘Non-Combatant’ headstones.

Now to the inscriptions on the headstones. The type faced used was designed by MacDonald Gill and is all in upper case. Each stone contains a regimental cap badge or national emblem. The headstone would then contain as much information about the soldier buried underneath it as possible some of which would have been provided by the family. The details will include rank, name (either the Christian name in full or just initials), unit, date of death, if known, and age. This would all be inscribed above a religious symbol, in most cases a cross. This is usually a plain Latin cross but sometimes for esthetical reasons a larger cross is carved with the regimental badge inside it. Other religious symbols are used, for example Jews have the Star of David and there are Hindu and Muslim graves with the appropriate religious symbol and text. The symbol is sometimes omitted from the headstone if the deceased is known to be an atheist. For Victoria Cross recipients the regimental cap badge is supplemented by the carving of the Victoria Cross emblem. This is placed where the religious symbol would be.

[Frank Kelley]

Can't see an entry in WO329, WO363, WO364 or WO372, I doubt if Herbert Wear served overseas and as already stated, he need not have actually done so, to be buried with that headstone subsequently added by the CWGC.

Originally Posted by gurkharifles

I was walking through a local church yard and noticed this headstone. It's clearly a Commonwealth War Grave Commission headstone - and it also looked as if the stone itself had been recently replaced ( or someone had done an excellent job of cleaning it! ) - but the other thing that struck me was the date of his death 29th November 1918 - so presumably died of wounds received before the armistice, presumably having been sent to England to have his wounds treated? Also his unit Corps of Military Police - suffered "only" 451 deaths in the whole of WW1 - so his must been amongst the very last of his corps? Would love to know more about him. Tim

[mike_vee]

Found this :

Corporal H F Wear P/6688, Military Foot Police, Military Police Corps.

"Herbert Francis Wear died at Stonewell farm, Congresbury. The cause of death was Influenza and Pneumonia."

"Note: at some point before he died Corporal Wear transferred from the Military Foot Police to the 449th Agricultural Labour Corps Service No:439867 and held the rank of Lance-Corporal".

Casualties of the First World War, 1914 – 1918, who are associated with the Parishes of St Andrew, Congresbury and St Anne, Hewish. Page 23


.

[Wobbler]

I found the RMP Museum most helpful when researching my uncle. The curator was excellent, really helpful and friendly, and gave me some great information about him and also sent me copies of his tracer card.

Interestingly, and very pertinent to your post, he told me in his reply that they held far more information on the period pre 1920 than after, but even though my uncle was a Redcap from 1945-1949, he still had plenty of information to pass to me.

Corporal Wear certainly crops up on their search page, although you’d have to pay £2.50 to see any more of his profile, but I emailed the museum as well to get that extra information on Uncle Fran.

http://rmpmuseum.com/

https://rhqrmp.org/research_rmp.html

museum@rhqrmp.onmicrosoft.com

Having just looked, I understand the museum is currently closed but they may well still be taking email enquiries of course.

Barrie Morris’s excellent site was also most helpful to me:

http://www.corpsofmilitarypolice.org/

http://www.corpsofmilitarypolice.org/soldier/5257/

http://www.corpsofmilitarypolice.org...-insignia.html