East Surrey Regiment

[High Wood]

One of the strangest East Surrey Regiment cap badges that I have ever seen.

Apart from being flat, it has a die cast back. It also has serifs. There is another known variant with serifs but it has a different construction.

Is this a known variant or a fake badge?

[Alan O]

Never seen one of those before. It's certainly solidly constructed.

I am not that keen on the slider shape or the font style but it has some age.

[High Wood]

Here is the other known type that has serifs.

https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/fo...ctureid=186258

It has vent holes and a hair pin slider.

https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/fo...ctureid=186262

[Luke H]

It is a fake I’m afraid, straight out the MM catalogue.

I suspect the old warning regards the serif lettering is aimed at this badge and doesn’t account for the genuine variant often with a hairpin slider you provided links to in post #3

A similar analogy would be the dreaded ‘spanners’ on Tank Corps badges yet there is one genuine variant where the torsion bar mounts do resemble spanners.

[High Wood]

Thank you Luke,

there was clearly something very odd about it as alarm bells were ringing, I suspected that it was a fake. Good to have it confirmed.

[Alan O]

I like the hairpin slider and the vent holes but dislike everything else about it myself. the fact that it matches the marsh badge in design and lettering unnerves me.

[Sonofacqms]

Luke,
When did Martin Marsh first produce his catalogue of badges?

Rob

[Sonofacqms]

I have one of these East Surrey Regt badges with a serif typeface and I was almost 100% certain I bought it from William Tobin.

When I checked in my records I was correct and paid 1/9d for it which is less than 10p by my reckoning of today's prices and was the going rate for line infantry in the mid 1960's.

I think this is a manufacturers variation probably made in small quantities during one of the major conflicts of the 20th century, it may well have been copied and Martin Marsh had it in his catalogue, but my badge is staying on my East Surrey board.

Rob

[Luke H]

It’s entirely plausible Alan that the badge which unnerves you was used as the inspiration or template for the fake.

There is clear precedence to this in the Marsh catalogues and how certain badges have served as inspiration or basis for the copy.

Personally there is nothing that worries me re the linked badge. Off the top of my head I can think of no fake metal badges found with hairpin sliders. Whilst braze holes aren’t a guarantee proportion of repros with them is low in comparison. Add that together with the badges age etc. and I have no doubts. Stylistically I feel they’re highly likely to be of WW1 manufacture which would also go some way to explaining some of the features.

Rob I think late 1980s the catalogues were first published, but I understand the business was in operation long before.

[Luke H]

Rob we were typing at the same time. My thoughts exactly re you last post (#8).

[Sonofacqms]

Luke, thanks for the date of the Marsh catalogues, they were something that I missed (fortunately/unfortunately) I don't doubt they were printed to move on a vast array of modern strikes which they succeeded to do.

I can remember going to Cornwall in the mid 1970's and seeing a range of rare badges in a shop, the owner proudly told me they were manufactured by someone he knew in Birmingham from original dies, I took a step back and put my cheque book back in my pocket . . !

Rob

[dubaiguy]

WWI manufacture too!!!

I know, I know, the crown. But............

Mark

[Luke H]

The original Marsh dies perhaps Rob.

I don’t wonder if that sales pitch was made to bulk buyers on basis a few (barely a handful) being original FN, Woodward and Gaunt dies and inaccurate representations made or implied that they were all from original dies. Which is clearly not and never was the case.

[Army Vet]

Martin Marsh' Father Bernard, was selling Repro British cap badges at the Leeds Arms fair in the early 1970s. A good fifty percent of the military items he sold from his shop in Manchester when he was trading there were tricked up items. Especially items pertaining to the Third Reich.

[Sonofacqms]

Originally Posted by Army Vet

Martin Marsh' Father Bernard, was selling Repro British cap badges at the Leeds Arms fair in the early 1970s. A good fifty percent of the military items he sold from his shop in Manchester when he was trading there were tricked up items. Especially items pertaining to the Third Reich.

This particular family trait seems to have been passed on as from what I have read on the forum, there are several family business's based on selling dodgy items which is a pity.

Rob