34Th, Armoured man in T force

[Mike Jackson]

Originally Posted by Paul Spellman

5th Bn KLR
T Force Sign as on display Liverpool Museum
Paul

I was really amazed to see this since I have been researching T Force on and off for about 20 years and have never before seen any evidence at all of a cloth unit sign for T Force. The images of 5 King's that I have seen in the immediate post VE Day period show them dressed correctly as Kingsman, sometime with the XXX Corps formation sign worn below the shoulder title. Vehicles and unit signs however show the white T on black ground displayed in a number of formats. I would guess that the sign on the BD blouse in the Museum is a private initiative - made up locally (which is precisely what I would have done had a been a member of the unit at that time!). A few images - to help keep this topic on the boil. Mike
62.jpgT Force.37 5 Kings LRC Place unknown.jpgT Force.12 15cwt.jpg

[Peter Brydon]

I don't think the T Force battledress blouse was on display last time I was at the Museum although I may be wrong.

I can say that on the two occasions that I have been given the opportunity to look at the uniforms in the Museum Stores ( once a couple of years ago and once about 30 years ago ) I am sure it was not there and so may well be a recent acquisition.

Next time I am in touch with the Curator I will try and find the provenance for the item.

P.B.

[Paul Spellman]

I would not want to confuse matters anymore but this image is from the book TForce- forgotten heroes of WW2 by Simon Longden >Amazon preview
Some RTR Significance
Paul

[Mike Jackson]

An interesting sign but no RTR linkage as far as I know. At least one of the Rs featured stood for restitution (one of No 2 T Force's post War roles). I cannot recall what the expansion of the other two Rs are. The XXX Corps wild boars on the sign illustrated need to go on a diet - too much heavy German food perhaps?

From my notes on T Force:

Formation signs

It is believed that the only formation signs worn by members of the units that made up the T Forces were those of Second British Army and First Canadian Army. It is believed that in the immediate post-VE Day period 5 King’s started to wear the sign of 30 Corps. Later, members of 5 King’s wore the Control Commission Germany (CCG) sign on battledress. Photographic evidence indicates that at least some of the C Coy, 5 King’s vehicles in Denmark carried the 30 Corps sign and the words T FORCE painted in white on the front wing. The 2 T Force unit serial is believed to be 144 in white numerals on a black square. Post war it is believed that 2 T Force/5 King’s were allotted the unit serial 60 when within Control Commission Germany (CCG).

[Paul Spellman]

It seems to be a common trait with all Battalion's of the Kings Liverpool Regt to adopt 'Unofficial' piece's of insignia - before during and after both world wars,and I am sure many examples can be named here by members.
The 5th Bn were quite lucky to survive after being a Beach Party at Normandy and if it wasn't for their C.O. arguing the case that they were the senior Territorial Bn they may have well ended up disbanded like most other Bn's who undertook the same role. He pushed further for them to be active in more actions which led to them being involved in the liberation of Kiel which was basically the start of T Force, this being said the sign on the BD at the Museum of Liverpool would not surprise me as being correct 'though unofficial' to period and being worn by at least one of the Coy's of the 5th Bn.
Paul

[Mike Jackson]

A liitle more from my notes on 5 King's in their Beach Group and T Force roles. Any errors? If so, King's Regt experts' corrections would be welcome.

The troops to provide the manpower for the T Force role came from a variety of sources. The first to be identified were two infantry battalions that had formerly carried out the Beach Group task in Normandy.

The 5th Battalion, the King’s Liverpool Regiment (5 King’s) was the main element of 5 Beach Group, 101 Beach Sub-Area. On completion of its Beach Group duties, the battalion was reinforced by members of 8th (Irish) Battalion, The King’s Regiment (8 King’s) which, having suffered heavy casualties in 7 Beach Group, was being disbanded. 5 King’s was then employed on the Lines of Communication in France on such tasks as guarding a compound of British Army deserters at Lion sur Mer and helping prevent French civilians from stealing petrol from the cross-Channel petrol pipeline PLUTO as it advanced through France to the forward petrol points. Released from these duties in February 1945 the battalion moved to Termonde as a mobile reserve for the defence of Antwerp. But the following month it was transferred to Bourgourgville, near Dunkirk and was called upon to occupy a sector in the Loon Plage defensive perimeter of Dunkirk, coming under command of the Czech Indep Armd Bde. 5 King’s joined T Force in late March 1945. The battalion performed the T Force role for some 14 months until, in May 1946, it started to hand over its role as a T Force unit and reform as an infantry battalion of the line. The battalion was however “disembodied” in July 1946, but reformed as a TA battalion the following year.

Mike