Unknown group with Churchill tank - British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum

Rob Miller · #1 13-12-14, 05:42 PM

Not very clear but could this be 7th Queens Own Hussars or something else?

Rob

manchesters · #2 13-12-14, 06:53 PM

Could be Household Cavalry

2747andy · #3 13-12-14, 07:09 PM

Simon,
Not in the beret, the Household Cavalry badge is only worn in the Forage Cap by other ranks! I'd go with LG

Andy

manchesters · #4 13-12-14, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2747andy

Simon,
Not in the beret, the Household Cavalry badge is only worn in the Forage Cap by other ranks! I'd go with LG

Andy

Andy,

That's what I meant - LG or RHG.

Regards

2747andy · #5 13-12-14, 08:42 PM

Simon,
Okay, I also think they could be Yeomanry, as the NCO in the front row does not appear to have a crown above his chevrons! Perhaps Dorset or Shropshire?

Andy

enfant perdus · #6 14-12-14, 01:15 AM

Assuming this is from the Second World War...

I’d consider one of the Canadian Churchill units, either The Ontario Regiment or The Three Rivers Regiment. Both of those Regiments had badges fitting the outline in the photo. The third Regiment in 1st Canadian Tank Brigade, The Calgary Regiment, did not.

The only Yeomanry units that operated Churchills were 1st F&F, and the North Irish Horse, and clearly it's neither of them. Similarly, no Household Cavalry, but rather 4th GG, 4th CG, and 3rd SG in 6th Guards Tank Brigade.

It’s clearly not RTR, and the other Churchill units were those RAC Regiments converted from Infantry battalions. I think we can also agree that we’re not looking at Buffs, King’s Own, Duke of Wellington’s or Essex badges here.

The only other thing they might be is one the the RE Assault Regiments. There isn’t a lot of useful detail visible on the tank itself. However, given the position of the turret, I find it odd that there is no part of the gun barrel visible. If it were an AVRE Churchill, this would make sense, as the petard mortar was very short.

Just some thoughts.

Mike Jackson · #7 14-12-14, 07:26 AM

Interesting thoughts. I’d consider one of the Canadian Churchill units, either The Ontario Regiment or The Three Rivers Regiment.

But aren't they all wearing the standard British Army one-piece and very much sought-after tank denims? In my view the style in which the berets are worn smacks of the post War British Army. And the apparently gun-less Churchill could be a training vehicle or a hulk? Mike

Hussar100 · #8 14-12-14, 04:04 PM

No it's not a hulk and the gun isn't missing nor is it a dustbin chucker. If you look again you'll see the panzer is gun rear and depressed.

My money's on the Life Guards btw. The badge is too bright for it to be RHG/D. I don't think it's a yeomanry or colonial outfit either.

It's infinitely possible the pic was taken at Bovvy. Still plenty of Churchills there for experimental purposes post war.

That's my two bob's worth.

EDIT: JUst had another look. She's gun rear because she's got something mounted on the glacis. You can see bracketry on the mudguards.

Mike Jackson · #9 14-12-14, 05:06 PM

I know I'm splitting hairs, but I think the horizontal V shaped bracket nearest the camera indicates that we are looking at the right, rear of the tank - with gun depressed and facing forward. Poor quality diagram from Bovington shows the bracket.
Churchill Mk VII.gif

manchesters · #10 14-12-14, 05:28 PM

The tank is has the turret facing backwards.

All the suspending arms to the bogie wheels on the track operate from in front of the wheels.

This tank has them in front so is facing to the left.

Whats more the gun can be seen sloping down behind the shoulder of the right hand man.

regards

Mike Jackson · #11 14-12-14, 06:16 PM

Worth a thousand words?
Churchill_Unident.Rear.01.jpg Churchill_Unident.Rear.02.jpg.gif Churchill-Mark7.Rear.03.jpg

REMEVMBEA1 · #12 14-12-14, 06:34 PM

The shape of the badge could even be a first pattern REME so it could possibly be a workshop or training establishment photograph, just guessing.

cavalryman · #13 14-12-14, 08:15 PM

hi guys, I do know that this is not an easy task, to tell the front from the back on the Churchill tank and it's not a classic photo for that purpose. as there appears to be some life guards standing in the way, but mike is correct the tank is facing away from the photographer, and the gun is depressed over the front. regards john

Rob Miller · #14 14-12-14, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by REMEVMBEA1

The shape of the badge could even be a first pattern REME so it could possibly be a workshop or training establishment photograph, just guessing.

Its possible, but would REME wear denim tank overalls, and the berets look more black than blue?

Is my original suggestion of 7th Hussars impossible?

Rob

Hussar100 · #15 15-12-14, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob Miller

Its possible, but would REME wear denim tank overalls, and the berets look more black than blue?

Is my original suggestion of 7th Hussars impossible?

Rob

No, not impossible. In my cause I think it's the LG because there appears to be a void around the central motif of the badge. This wouldn't be present in a 7H badge. It could just be shadow but I don't think so.

REME would have worn tank overalls in my time but I can't speak for when this pic was taken.

It is a gun tank however and whether we're looking at the front of the tank or rear the gun is facing away from us and is depressed. Upon reflection I revise my opinion on that and now say the gun is depressed over the front of the glacis.