Private Matt Daly, boy soldier of the First World War

[jembo]

This is a photo of Matt Daly, a 14 year old Irish lad from inchicore Dublin. I don't know if he died in the war or survived.

He appears to be wearing the cap badge of the Royal Army Medical Corps and the red cross on his uniform could also be a clue. Also he appears to be wearing wellington boots?

Can anybody add anything to this please?
jembo

[Hussar100]

In that period I believe it would have been usual for boys of that age to be in the band. They didn't join man service until they were 18. There's something in the back of my mind which also suggests they could have been signed on as stable lads too which would make perfect sense in the days of horse drawn ambulances in the RAMC.

[oc14]

I would guess that this is he ? This is the only Matthew Daly to have served in the RAMC during WW1.

PL

[ebro]

The youngest soldier killed in WW1 was a 14 years old from Waterford.
Eddie

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/real-li...er-ww1-3927739

[jembo]

Originally Posted by ebro

The youngest soldier killed in WW1 was a 14 years old from Waterford.
Eddie

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/real-li...er-ww1-3927739

Here's a photo of John Condon.
http://www.irishpost.co.uk/news/memo...ldier-unveiled

[Alan O]

Thread re-opened at initiator's request. Contentious posts deleted. please continue discussion about the photo only please.

[jembo]

Originally Posted by Alan O

Thread re-opened at initiator's request. Contentious posts deleted. please continue discussion about the photo only please.

Thank you for unlocking this thread. I am most grateful.
jembo.

I have since found out that it is a genuine photo of Matt Dally,he survived the war and went on to be a grandfather. See attached link.
https://twitter.com/DJDave63/status/496625727035682816

Thanks to all who contributed to the thread.

[Jibba Jabba]

There was only one Matthew Daly who served overseas with the RAMC......number: 11192. Rank is Private, no mention of Boy on the medal index card.

There were a total of 543 'Boys' who 'officially' served overseas with the British Army. These were 14 year olds. However 14 years is far from the youngest, seafarers often took their offspring to sea with the Merchant Navy. There are records, including casualty records for 12 year olds. Very sad.

[jembo]

On the first day of the Battle of the Somme in 1916, 500 ‘Boy Soldiers’ were killed and 2,000 wounded. BY the time the battle had ended, 18,000 ‘Boy Soldiers’ had been killed or wounded.
http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/boy_soldiers.htm
Officer (to a boy of 13 who has given his age as 16):"Do you know where boys go who tell lies?"
Applicant:"To the Front, Sir."
F. H. Townsend, Punch Magazine (11th August, 1916)

[grumpy]

Originally Posted by jembo

On the first day of the Battle of the Somme in 1916, 500 ‘Boy Soldiers’ were killed and 2,000 wounded. BY the time the battle had ended, 18,000 ‘Boy Soldiers’ had been killed or wounded.
http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/boy_soldiers.htm
Officer (to a boy of 13 who has given his age as 16):"Do you know where boys go who tell lies?"
Applicant:"To the Front, Sir."
F. H. Townsend, Punch Magazine (11th August, 1916)

QUOTE from History Learning:
Recruitment rules were simple. To enlist and fight abroad, you had to be nineteen or over. If you were eighteen, you could enlist but you had to remain in the UK until you were nineteen before being posted abroad. No one could join the army under the age of eighteen.

COMMENT:
arrant nonsense ......... boys were were recruited as tailors, bandboys. drummers, trumpeters and buglers and, under Mobilisation Regulations, all except tailors could go on active service with the consent of the CO and the RMO.

Where does all this nonsense come from?

[Graham Stewart]

scan0003.jpgC.I. - 1915.jpg

I have to agree with Grumpy and include the exact detail from Mobilization Regulations 1914.

We are forever hearing about these 'young' lads joining up underage and their sacrifice while I agree that quite a few did, I'm afraid the reality is far different.

During my research into WWI Recruiting, I found a letter in the Times 'giving' these young lads a hammering for hanging around on street corners while their elder brothers, fathers, uncles and cousins were enlisting in droves.

In 1915 parents were so distraught at finding that their young sons had gone overseas - many of whom lied about their age - that they made protests to Parliament about it and in June 1915 many were brought home as per the Circular Instruction attached for the Territorial Force.

I also did an exercise in relating to deaths among original members of the Tyneside Scottish between 1916 and 1918 and the reality is - of the 1,603 killed or died of wounds less than a dozen under the age of nineteen years were noted.

[Jibba Jabba]

Boy is a rank / rate whatever you want to call it for all services. the most interesting rate I have seen is Boy Mechanic of the RNAS!

I was trying to point out that the British had 543 Boys who served overseas with that rank in the army. DO NOT confuse the RANK of Boy as, underage enlistment it has nothing to do with it.

The rank of Boy in its various forms is RARE to see for a soldier who served overseas with the British army during the Great War. Underage enlistments are too numerous to count I am afraid.

I have over the last 25 years researched many underage enlistments. It was very enlightening to be able to complete their stories with service papers.

Even if an underage soldier was sent home (having been discovered) he was still entitled to medals but it would appear that different units had different ways of dealing with underage recruits. Some did not return home, they were sent on duties at the regimental depo. The time was then allowed to elapse, where by they became of age and then they returned to duties with the rest of the unit. It did not matter how many letters were sent from the family to the regiment, some would not let them return to the UK!

Others who I have researched, who did return home, didn't leave the army all together they transferred to other units serving in the UK. They then became of age and were sent out overseas again. Some used the time wisely and learned a trade in England with the Army e.g. Royal Engineers.

P.S. I was wondering when you would get here grumpy!

[grumpy]

Without wishing to be pedantic,

BOY was not a RANK in the British Army of 1914-1918.

King's Regs 1912 amended to 1 August 1914. para. 282 sets out in columnar form all Other Ranks and their associated appointments.

rank band viii comprises:
trooper gunner driver sapper pioneer private ONLY

associated appointments include BOY.

The reason why boys as such are rarely identified is because they would be on the rolls as drummer, bugler or trumpeter ...... the regulations are clear on this

As background information, the whole point of enlisting with a given age of 18 was money ....... half as much again as paid to a boy enlisted under that age. Boys enlisting as such were required to prove age, boys enlisting as men merely stated a birth date. There were many under 18s serving in the army in the years before and up to the Great War, many of them on man's wages.
The age for Active Service was 19 as the war began [although pre-war the age for "Overseas" was 20] but boys trained in the skills listed above were exempt from this age bar. I have not done the research to see how many were Old Contemptibles, probably more than a few and less than many.

[grumpy]

if indeed the lad in ill-fitting RAMC uniform was the boy in question, a few facts from Recruiting Regs 1912.

148. Boys may be enlisted for training as bandsmen, trumpeters, drummers, buglers, pipers, clerks, tailors and artificers.

......... the total permitted for each corps was regulated. That for RAMC was 40 as trumpeters etc, and 8 as tailors.*

151. not under 14 years of age.

* one assumes such an ill-clad youth was not among the tailors!

[Hussar100]

I believe BOY was a rank in the navy only in WW1.