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  #16  
Old 27-11-15, 06:49 PM
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Arnhemjim Arnhemjim is offline
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Default Patchett or Early Sterling SMG?

Not intending to further confuse, but out of honest curiosity, could the machine carbine in the hands of the sergeant possibly be one of the early very limited production (20 weapons; see Skennerton’s, British Small Arms of World War 2) Patchett machine carbines possibly provided to Canadian Forces for test and evaluation. Canted position of the bayonet indicates the presence of the side lug on the air jacket (sleeve) for attachment of the notch with press stud fitted into the pommel of the bayonet. However the muzzle ring looks too thick for a No.5 Bayonet. Gravitating away from that analysis however, is the post war open collar, shirt and tie showing, combined with what appears to be the ribband of a Korean Service Medal showing on the corporal’s battledress blouse.

Arnhem Jim
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  #17  
Old 27-11-15, 07:45 PM
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Default Patchett or Early Sterling SMG?

Not wanting to appear, let alone be, the fool, I would like to invite members of the forum to the following information. Please carefully note dates of publication. Apparently it all may be in the name, possibly over patent rights, and royalties. Do not know. Also note bayonet lug bareiy visible in first image. Finding this information certainly clarified some very long term questions I personally had regarding the Patchett vs Sterling.

New Machine Carbine for Canadian Army
Topic: Militaria
New Machine Carbine for Canadian Army
The Sydney Morning Herald, 29 April, 1953
Korea Troops Test New British Gun

New York, April 28 (A.A.P.)—Canadian and other Commonwealth units of the First Commonwealth Division in Korea are testing a new machine-gun.
The gun is the British made Patchett machine-carbine.

According to Canadian war correspondent Bill Boss, it will replace the unpopular Sten gun in the Canadian Army if the tests are successful.
The Patchett is described as the perfect paratrooper's weapon.

It is all metal and weighs 8 ½ lbs. complete with a 10-inch knife-type bayonet, sling and filled magazine.

It can be fired from the shoulder, using sights adjustable for 100 and 200 yards, or from the hip.

A Canadian warrant-officer said: "Its appearance alone gives the soldier confidence which he has not got in his Sten. Of 600 rounds I've fired, there has only been one feed stoppage."

Ottawa Citizen, 15 June, 1953
More Details Released on New Machine-Carbine
By Bill Boss, Canadian Press Staff Writer

With the Canadian in Korea—A few more details about the Patchett machine carbine, recommended for use by Canadians in Korea, have been released by 1st Commonwealth Division headquarters.

The weapon has been thoroughly tested by all battalions in the division as a replacement for the Sten carbine. Brig. Jean Allard, commander of the Canadian Brigade, on the basis of the Canadians' tests, has recommended that it be obtained for use in Korea only.

Test indicated, he said, that the Patchett is superior to the Sten, but still not the answer to the army's search search for an automatic weapon capable of good close-in performance, yet of accuracy at distances up to 200 yards.
It may be reported that the Patchett is a nine-millimeter weapon, the same calibre as the Sten.

Its rate of fire is 550 rounds per minute, about the same as the Sten.
It's slightly curved magazines hold 34 rounds. They can be loaded by hand, and their roller-bearing platform feeds the round smoothly, reducing stoppages. Loaders are needed for charging Stan magazines which usually feed improperly, causing stoppages.

WO2 George Maguire of Ottawa, the brigade's senior armorer, who conducted the Canadians' Patchett tests, said: "At 30 yards it cam fire 2 1/2-inch groups, which is as good as a service rifle can do. I've been riddling tin cans regularly with it ay 150 yards. The effective range for most nine-millimeter is 125 yards."
Patchett features which persuade soldiers it is better than the Stan are its appearance, its precision machining, its weight (8 1/2 pounds) and its balance, with ot without its 10 1/2 inch bayonet.

The fact that its butt can be flipped under and locked to the barrel, thereby shortening it and making it suitable for both firing from the hip or close in fighting, is another advantage.

Allard and his staff feel, however, that though for immediate use in Korea it should be bought, it has defects which ought to be corrected before it is adopted for general use in the Canadian Army.

He recommended, indeed, that Canada continue her own research for a suitable automatic weapon.

The Patchett is going to be rechristened too. It is proposed to call it the Sterling machine carbine.

Ottawa Citizen, 20 December, 1956
Patchett Gun Replaces Sten
By The Canadian press

The Sterling sub-machine-gun, formerly known as the Patchett, has been adopted to replace the Sten gun used by the Canadian army since early in the Second World War.

Army headquarters announced today that the government munitions agency, Canadian Arsenals, Ltd., of Long Branch, Ont., will manufacture the new gun with production expected to begin next year.

The Sterling, a nine-millimetre, fully automatic and single shot weapon, is already in use by the British army. Test teams have fired it under all weather conditions, including the coldest temperatures of the sub-Arctic, and found it superior to anything now in use.

The new sub-machine-gun is a compact weapon weighing only six pounds. Because of its simplicity, it can be mastered in a short time and its size makes it ideal for carrying in the cabs of military vehicles.

Arnhem Jim
Arizona Territory
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Last edited by Arnhemjim; 27-11-15 at 07:59 PM.
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  #18  
Old 27-11-15, 07:49 PM
edstorey edstorey is offline
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Default Berets

The navy blue berets with the coloured flash inserts were briefly worn during the period between 1952-1954.

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  #19  
Old 27-11-15, 08:29 PM
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Patchett Machine Carbine Mark 2 became the SMG L2A1 - Adopted in 1953 for British Service.

The knife bayonet used with the 9 mm SMG L2 is the same as used on the .303" Lee-Enfield No. 5 Mk. 1 (Jungle Carbine) Rifle.


British Army L2A1 SMG with No5 bayonet fixed

The British SMG Trigger Guard could be removed for Artic Use, and I remember it being done on AMF(L) exercises in Norway, but mainly SLR's were issued on ground exercises! with the bayonet being issued sharpened as a means of escaping from tents in case of fire, which was an ever present hazard with lamps & cookers being used in closed up tents (naphtha was used instead of petrol or kerosene)
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Last edited by Mike_2817; 27-11-15 at 08:48 PM.
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  #20  
Old 27-11-15, 08:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edstorey View Post
The navy blue berets with the coloured flash inserts were briefly worn during the period between 1952-1954.


Seeing the hat in color I can really understand why it was not a popular with the men.
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  #21  
Old 27-11-15, 08:52 PM
edstorey edstorey is offline
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Default No. 5 Bayonet

Here is a No. 5 Bayonet from which the Canadian manufactured FN Bayonet takes its lineage.

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  #22  
Old 27-11-15, 09:25 PM
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I didn't know that connection. Still learning.
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