Suffolk Regiment kc, two tower castle

[1stTankie]

Originally Posted by chief_chum

"However, having captured your attention, could I ask if you know when the Suffolk Regiment started putting the red backing behind the castle? Would it be appropriate on the badge in question?"

That would depend on the Battalion - 1/Suffolk wore a red backing but 2/Suffolk did not...

Taff

Hi Taff

Many thanks for that.

Two questions if I may:

A: When did the 1st Bn start wearing the red backing in the Forage Cap? Was this a natural consequence of having worn a red backing to their helmet plate and glengarry badge?

B: What colour backing did the 2nd Bn wear?

Best wishes

Gordon

[davec2]

Hi Gordon,

The description in the book ' Badge Backings & Special Embelishments of the British Army' is very short and sweet.

As Taff stated, no mention of the 2nd Btn but for the 1st, I quote :-

An insert red badge backing was worn behind the cap badge and all other forms of headdress since before 1920 according to PRO records. On the 29th August 1959 the Norfolk and Suffolk regiments amalgamated to form 1st Battalion the Royal Anglian Regiment, unquote.

The badge depicted in the book for this description is the three turret version ??

That's it Sir, I'm full of it when I can read it out of a book !!!

Dave.

[chief_chum]

Hi Gordon,

A: When did the 1st Bn start wearing the red backing in the Forage Cap? Was this a natural consequence of having worn a red backing to their helmet plate and glengarry badge?

1/Suffolk were certainly wearing cap badges with red backing during the Great War and at least one of the Service Battalions did too.

B: What colour backing did the 2nd Bn wear?

2/Suffolk had no backing at all.

With best wishes,

Taff

[Alan O]

This is my latest find. There has never been a 3rd central tower and the battlements are individually cut out.

Alan

[norfolk regt man]

Originally Posted by Sonofacqms

I have a suspicion that the badge shown is not all it should be, unless a "new" variety of Suffolk Rgt cap badge has been discovered and I stand to be corrected.

K&K 603 The Suffolk Regt QVC two turret castle has sprigs below the scroll.

K&K 604 The Suffolk Regt KC two turret castle has sprigs below the scroll. (This is by far the scarcest variety)

K&K 605 The Suffolk Regt KC three turret castle has no sprigs below the scroll. (This always to my mind had the central tower added to the existing die of the two turret variety without the sprigs below the scroll)

There were further alterations to the die and a castle more in keeping with that on all the "Gibralter" badges was made, this pattern is by far the most common and was used up to the amalgamation, for some reason this pattern is not shown in K&K Vol 1 or 2.

My point is, has the central turret been removed from this badge?

Any signs of file marks etc?

If no traces of any tampering are visible then there must be a further variety of Suffolk badge out there.

Your thoughts.

Rob

hi rob, this don't help, but there all diff. atb andrew

[norfolk regt man]

Originally Posted by davec2

Hi Gordon,

The description in the book ' Badge Backings & Special Embelishments of the British Army' is very short and sweet.

As Taff stated, no mention of the 2nd Btn but for the 1st, I quote :-

An insert red badge backing was worn behind the cap badge and all other forms of headdress since before 1920 according to PRO records. On the 29th August 1959 the Norfolk and Suffolk regiments amalgamated to form 1st Battalion the Royal Anglian Regiment, unquote.

The badge depicted in the book for this description is the three turret version ??

That's it Sir, I'm full of it when I can read it out of a book !!!

Dave.

The book should say what really happened On the 29th August 1959. The Royal Norfolk will cease to be part of the regular army.It will combine with the Suffolk regiment to form 1st East Anglian Regiment, The Royal Norfolk Regiment TA will be unaffected.
The book aint the one titled THE ROYAL EAST ANGLIAN REGIMENT is it.

The photo is of an officer in THE ROYAL NORFOLK REGT. 1826

[chief_chum]

1/1st East Anglian Regiment (Royal Norfolk and Suffolk) to give the new battalion its proper name.

With the Norfolk 'Royal' prefix they should, of course, have been the Royal East Anglian Regiment but it was considered that the REARs would not give the right fighting image!

After absorbing the Royal Lincolns, Royal Leicesters and Northants, in 1964, the Regiment was clearly no longer East Anglian so the Royal prefix could be added safely with no embarrassment.

[Alan O]

While K&K Volumes 1 and 2 show the progression as:

QVC 2 tower,
K/C 2 tower
Universal castle with k/c

dress regulations show that the universal castle should have been in use before short sliders were introduced in 1906.

I am of the opinion that K&K got this progression wrong and the 2 tower and 3 tower k/c badges were a WW1 sub contractor or commercial supplier who made an incorrect die. They may have recut the incorrect die to add the third tower as a result. Either way the standard and style of workmanship suggests a mass produced WW1 badge not a quality turn of the century item.