Not a badge as such...Red Beret - British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum

grip · #1 29-07-12, 04:09 PM

Hi all,
What is going on here,Z 1945....beret marked 1944,not the cloth crown we should be seeing in my opinion,a put together beret made to decieve????
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2210792029...84.m1423.l2648
Ivan

grenadierguardsman · #2 29-07-12, 05:45 PM

No way, he`s extracting the urine. I don`t care what anyone says that`s rubbish. There`s no history in that beret what soever.

Eddie Parks · #3 30-07-12, 08:19 AM

Can you please explain exactly why you think it's duff - so we know what to avoid.
Eddie

grip · #4 30-07-12, 09:52 AM

You need to see the weave of the wool on a real one to appreciate the construction,I will post two later on. The date letter differs from the manufacturers date,not necessarily the end of the world but on this one it is. The overall shape of the beret is cold war issue not WW2 issue. The piece as a whole just looks wrong. My guess is,made up out of parts and I would think you would find needle holes in the leather band where it has been restitched. If not then it is a modern kangol stamp recently done. Mostly though is the shape and wool construction.
Ivan

Mike_2817 · #5 30-07-12, 10:02 AM

Re manufacturers date. It being 1944 and Z meaning 1945 is not a major difference if produced at end of December!

Are genuine wartime Maroon berets that rare? How many were produced??

Personally for that type of money I'd want to examine it in the hand, not by picture.

grip · #6 30-07-12, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike_2817

Re manufacturers date. It being 1944 and Z meaning 1945 is not a major difference if produced at end of December!

Are genuine wartime Maroon berets that rare? How many were produced??

Personally for that type of money I'd want to examine it in the hand, not by picture.

They are rare,more 1945 ones surface,but 1944 and especially 1943 examples command a lot of cash,we are talking £1500 onwards. Recently 1945 pieces have reached £600-£800 but mint ones will command higher. I guess thousands were made,but how many remain? They are an iconic piece of headgear.
Here are 2 of my 1945 dated examples,this one is totally mint,I have not seen one in such condition other than this one.
Ivan

grip · #7 30-07-12, 12:10 PM

Here is an example of a red beret with AAC badge,the beret has a lovely ghost image of the badge. Notice the weave and the oversized crown of the beret,compare it to the Ebay one that started this thread and you will see the difference.
Ivan

silverwash · #8 30-07-12, 02:18 PM

from the images posted the auction beret looks a perfectly good example. depending on the period at which the contract was fulfilled the contract letter for berets made during the year 1944 could either be " M " or " Z " as it would appear there was an overlap into 1945. don't quite know what to make of the statements regarding the overall shape , weave, modern stamp. the reason the crown of the other beret shown looks bigger is because the actual headsize is minute and thus emphasises the look. the colour, wool and stampings are all concomitant traits of a Kangol WW2 issue beret depicted in the auction listing. opinions vary, " you takes your choice "

SAS1 · #9 30-07-12, 02:53 PM

I totally disagree on the weave of the beret, which generally comes with wear or age. I used to have a small crown beret that had been used in the Falklands by a 2 Para guy which showed the same pattern.

Likewise I have also seen maroon berets that are still in the posession of families or vets which dont show it. Maroon berets were no different in construction to any other and as such, you see similar wear on several different coloured berets of that vintage but not on others.

grip · #10 30-07-12, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SAS1

I totally disagree on the weave of the beret, which generally comes with wear or age. I used to have a small crown beret that had been used in the Falklands by a 2 Para guy which showed the same pattern.

Likewise I have also seen maroon berets that are still in the posession of families or vets which dont show it. Maroon berets were no different in construction to any other and as such, you see similar wear on several different coloured berets of that vintage but not on others.

I'm not saying they are different in construction to black/blue berets,I am however questioning the subject beret of this thread. As has been said,it is a matter of choice and I don't like it. Kangol berets of the period all show the circular weave and often the line from centre to rim. My mint one clearly shows it,so they do not need to be used to show it. Remember there are several makers including Canadian companies that made these berets. As for the Falklands beret,my red beret of the period was nothing like the WW2 berets.
Regards,Ivan

SAS1 · #11 30-07-12, 06:37 PM

Re the Falklands type, if you were like me, you never wore the issue one, but bought your own, as I the Falklands one I had was.

I have had, and still have various wartime dated Kangol berets, none of the unissued ones showing a circular weave. Although yours is unisdued, it does not mean to say it hasn't suffered something over the last 70 years.

Belly · #12 30-07-12, 07:15 PM

I must say I’m with SAS1, I’ve never seen that circular weave before on a wartime beret. I’ve got 2 original wartime dated Kangols (although not red) and neither have that pattern or are constructed in anyway that that pattern could appear. I’ve never handled any with that pattern either?

grip · #13 30-07-12, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Belly

I must say I’m with SAS1, I’ve never seen that circular weave before on a wartime beret. I’ve got 2 original wartime dated Kangols (although not red) and neither have that pattern or are constructed in anyway that that pattern could appear. I’ve never handled any with that pattern either?

Really,it's a very widely accepted pattern in kangol red berets,look on WAF or war relics and see for yourself
Ivan

Mike_2817 · #14 30-07-12, 07:47 PM

I thought all berets were a circular weave?

Belly · #15 30-07-12, 08:05 PM

Circular weave maybe, but not like your mum’s knitted it! As I say I don’t have a red beret, but have handled enough wartime berets of various colours and have never seen such a course weave as that. I can’t see Kangol weaving in a different way just because a beret was red, unless it was a quirk unique to 1945?

See my well worn 44 dated Kangol mando beret attached where most of the nap has gone and you can see the segment construction