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  #16  
Old 16-09-10, 11:18 PM
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hagwalther hagwalther is offline
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Thanks Andy,

I have to admit that I take my level of 'official' wherever possible as per WO and MOD documentation and level.

e.g. Royal Corp of Signals badge was officially authorised as an A/A item but was also available as a PRI item in heavier metals and would have been worn on official duties. However, I would only ever consider the A/A version to have been the official item.

Collectors though may chose to collect such PRI items due to their close regimental ties to the said badges and that is there prerogative and there is nothing wrong with that.

I understand the issue re: "Free of Charge" but again this is at Corp and Regimental level not War Office or MOD which is the level that I try to base my research on as previously stated.

Of course, what we need is a book on all the "No Cost", "Free of Charge" badges to enable them to be covered to run in parallel with the 'official official' badges - any volunteers out there...

Regards

Chris
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  #17  
Old 17-09-10, 06:26 PM
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Chris, here's a KC cap badge in AA that was sold about a month ago on ebay.

If I understand KK well, it (KC in AA) was sealed 11th september 1959 (KK 2059). But KK 2060 says that QC in WM was sealed 28th september 1954, and QC in AA sealed 18th april 1966. Can anyone please explain?
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  #18  
Old 17-09-10, 06:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luc View Post
Chris, here's a KC cap badge in AA that was sold about a month ago on ebay.

If I understand KK well, it (KC in AA) was sealed 11th september 1959 (KK 2059). But KK 2060 says that QC in WM was sealed 28th september 1954, and QC in AA sealed 18th april 1966. Can anyone please explain?
Hi Luc,

This is the same as I have.

The thing is that I have no evidence whatsoever that this badge was made in A/A. These have a slider that I have problems with identifying and if you look at the 'bulges' on the wings next to the parachute you will see that they are uneven - not a good look.

They could have been a trial but they do seem to turn up a lot with yours being the fourth example I have seen.

As K+K state that this badge was sealed in WM in 1954 I would expect it to have been made in that metal in K/C even though Elizabeth was the sovereign. She made explicit remarks that the official crown and cypher were only to be changed (I have written this up in the 'Change of Crowns' chapter) when stocks dictated so as K/C WM procuring was well underway I would expect them to have been bulk manufactured and stocks issued until exhausted when the QC A/A item took over in 1966. i.e. there was no reason to make an KC A/A item.

I seriously believe that all the K/C A/A are duds and hope you did not pay too much. I'm trying to get the photography to my book finished ASAP but it has taken a lot longer than expected. Hopefully this will prevent purchases of suspect A/A badges but in the meantime I urge members to contact me on my Gmail address to check up on 'exotic' or rare badges. I

Remember that I base all my work on official documentation not what dealers or collectors say and think.

By the way, there were a LOT less A/A officially authorised for issue and bulk manufactured than previously thought and a great many of these are 5 quid eBay items.

Regards

Chris
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  #19  
Old 17-09-10, 06:56 PM
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Alan O Alan O is offline
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The alarm bells for me are the blank sliders and flat backs. This flat back is found on very few badges. Indeed it is found on the Bucks Regt TA 1967 badge which is the subject of a recent thread as a badge that was not produced for the unit but made for the collector's market.
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  #20  
Old 17-09-10, 07:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan O View Post
The alarm bells for me are the blank sliders and flat backs. This flat back is found on very few badges. Indeed it is found on the Bucks Regt TA 1967 badge which is the subject of a recent thread as a badge that was not produced for the unit but made for the collector's market.
Hi Alan,

The reverse of the badge is due to the contour relief of the obverse. Green Howard badges are all flat backed as the obverse is quite flat while badges such as 17th/21st Lancers are very hollow.

Have a look through a few badges and you will see what a mean where the level of obverse contour follows the level of reverse 'hollowness'.

Also the thickness of the aluminium sheet is another factor e.g. mirror backed Scottish badge but that's another topic altogether...

All to do with the work the reverse die or punch has to do to make the obverse relief.

Regards

Chris
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  #21  
Old 17-09-10, 08:02 PM
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Gurkha Gurkha is offline
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Thumbs up

Chris,
I am so very impressed with your knowledge.
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  #22  
Old 17-09-10, 08:18 PM
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Chris,

Point taken but I still don't like them
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  #23  
Old 17-09-10, 08:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gurkha View Post
Chris,
I am so very impressed with your knowledge.
Thanks Mate,

I 'ave me moments...

Regards

Chris
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  #24  
Old 17-09-10, 08:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan O View Post
Chris,

Point taken but I still don't like them
I've had a few off forum emails and will pull my badge out later and go through it again but I'm sure it's a dud.

Reagrds

Chris
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  #25  
Old 25-09-10, 08:22 AM
blackpowder44 blackpowder44 is offline
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Default Parachute cap badge

I am in the process of re framing my metal badges and came accross this Parachute cap badge with the makers name of Ludlow London, as you can see there remains on the rear the traces of black paint. Is it a good or bad one, thanks, John.
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File Type: jpg Ludlow para badge 003.jpg (51.7 KB, 154 views)
File Type: jpg Ludlow para badge 004.jpg (61.5 KB, 147 views)
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  #26  
Old 25-09-10, 11:07 AM
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fougasse1940 fougasse1940 is offline
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The 'black paint' might be silver oxidation, as it looks like an officers silver plated badge to me.

Rgds,
fougasse1940.
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  #27  
Old 25-09-10, 01:06 PM
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Yet another variation! Note how the centre shroud line touches the left side of the raised box at the bottom.
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  #28  
Old 25-09-10, 10:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luc View Post
If I understand KK well, it (KC in AA) was sealed 11th september 1959 (KK 2059). But KK 2060 says that QC in WM was sealed 28th september 1954, and QC in AA sealed 18th april 1966.

Any thoughts? It would seem strange to go from KC in AA to QC in WM...
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  #29  
Old 25-09-10, 11:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luc View Post
Any thoughts? It would seem strange to go from KC in AA to QC in WM...
Hi Luc,

As far as I'm concerned KC in A/A did not happen.

Comparing actual real A/A sealed pattern cards and the List of Changes (LoC) indexing information against Kipling and King I have found that 30-40% are different and ganted yes, I agree some dates may have been for re-sealing.

Stating that I do not use nor will refer to A/A sealed pattern dates as supplied by Kipling and King and to be frank I no longer refer to K/K for A/A entries for any sort of any A/A cap badge research.

However, if I can see the sealed pattern card or the LoC entry for a K/C A/A cap badge complete with the indexing details then I am happy to be corrected.


Regards

Chris
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  #30  
Old 03-11-10, 04:14 AM
Dave3para Dave3para is offline
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Hi,

I’m the new kid on the block who found this site whilst trying to find out some information on the Parachute Regiment Cap Badge. My question is, what was the date that the badge was approved and what date was the badge first issued. Now living down under my sources of reference are somewhat limited, can anyone help.
The first post by Arnhem Jim is most interesting and perhaps I can provide some additional information to him. I joined The Parachute Regiment in August 1960. The cap badge that I was issued with was unpolished white metal. In November 1960 new recruits were the first to be issued with those inferior staybright badges. My original beret badge would be no value to collectors as the rigging lines, parachute panel lines and the lions face are severely diminished from being polished and rubbed on Brasso soaked on the interior of a cigarette packet. To me my beret badge is priceless. The badge backing is fashioned out of the metal lid of a’ State Express 555’ cigarette tin in lieu of the issued plastic backing.
The method of getting your cap badge was by putting your hand in a box and pulling one out as you were in the line getting issued with your kit in the depot store. A friend who was in a platoon four intakes after me drew a cap badge with a Tudor (Kings) Crown on it. He refused to change it and became the butt of the comment “don’t come the old soldier with me”.
During my time there were quite a few changes and variations in dress and trials which I have yet to read being accurately reported, possibly through lack of proper record keeping.

Dave
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