Royal Wiltshire Yeomanry

[loupie1961]

I've recently bought a 1944 date RAC beret badged to the RWY. The badge has got a red cloth backing. On wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Wiltshire_Yeomanry
I've found that "The cap badge of the RWY is the Prince of Wales's feathers is a slightly different design to other regiments wearing the same symbol, such as the Royal Regiment of Wales. It is worn on the brown beret with a red baize and a black baize backing." First, I guess that being an armoured regiment, the RWY wore and wears a BLACK beret, but I'd like to know the meaning of the red backing... any hints?

[Alan O]

It is not a RWY beret or badge. The badge is not RWY but it is badge no 1929 in K&K. This is an Officers cap badge for the 10th Hussars.

The Regt wore the blue beret and red backing until 1969.

This website has a good b/w photo of an Trooper with the patch. http://www.xrhgb.com/snl09_1703_xrh.html

As an aside the RAC wore blue berets - it was only the RTC (later RTR and the RTR associated yeomanry units) who wore black ones.

Alan

[loupie1961]

Hello Alan, thank you so much for having put it right! Well, since I mainly collect items referring to the British and Commonwealth formations that have fought on the Italian front 1943-45, is equally great to be in possession of a 10th RH beret, mainly because I also have a lovely BD badged to the same formation, with 1st Armoured Division signs... Any specific reason for the 10th Royal Hussars to wear a red backing to their cap badges?

[Alan O]

Not 100% sure but on amlgamation they became the Royal Hussars who also wore a rather invidual pair of crimson trousers with their No2 dress. This was all to do with the 10th Hussars original uniform colours so I presume the patch was reflective of that.

Alan

[cbuehler]

Hi Alan,
Was the black beret worn only by the RTR in ww2 as well? I thought all amoured units (hussars, yeomanry etc.) wore the black beret in ww2 and not blue. This would be a new one on me if the blue beret was worn in ww2.

CB

[Alan O]

A really good point and in answer to the first part of your question the RTR were not the only ones to wear black. Those yeomany units who were converted to RTC in the 1920s also wore black. The Westminster dragoons were an example of this. You are right that a majority of armd (and those corps and ex-infantry who became armd) tps wore black berets but not all. The 11th hussars retained their own brown headress which was uniquely worn without a badge for example.

What the 10th Hussars were wearing in WW2 is another question. I did not say that the blue beret was worn in WW2 because I don't know what coulour they wore in the late war years; while it was worn by them up to amalgamation I do not know a start date for blue berets. My 1941 pamphlet has them in side caps at that point in the war. More research needed.
The question is therefore raised whether that 1944 beret in the picture is indeed wartime 10th Hussars or worn post war or even a modern put-together. I hope that it is not the latter but it is odd that the Offrs badge is one an ORs beret.

Alan

[loupie1961]

Alan, you deem it to be an OR beret because is not a private purchase? What about all the officers' battle dresses that are not tailor made, then?

[Alan O]

I deem it not to be an Officers beret because this is the 10th Hussars and as a cavalry regt it would be unusual. However this one could be a wartime expedient or a post war National Service man's beret. It would still be poor form and I can see any Adjutant looking on it very disapprovingly.

As an aside of course Offrs wore issued uniforms but as far as BD goes it would be normal practice for an Ooficer to have the issue tunic modified by having the collars faced etc to amke it stand out from the ORs.

Alan

[sean michael cronin]

Finally after 20 odd years one I'm happy with, no creases or folds in the stamping of the plumes and a nice sweat hole.Couldn't find this one at time of posting apart from being new, nasty fold as shown at arrow and no sweat hole.

[Alan O]

These are my 2. The lugged one raises the question of was it originally a collar badge?

The Gaunt London Ltd one would date to the 1970s and at that time the regiment was issued with a/a. This style of feathers can be seen on earlier officers badges and seems to have been adopted for ORs badges at a later date.

I have read the Wiltshire yeomanry's history but all too often the early photos of the ORs badges are indistinct.


Alan

[Mike H]

Possibly is Alan,the scroll appears to be similar to a Royal Hussars or KRH no1 dress collar badge.But it could have been issued as something else,to a regiment with a similar style of badge.

[davidwyke]

I know POW plume badges feature quite regularly on the forum and it's often difficult to positively ID them, but I thought I would give this one a try - bi-metal, 2 lugs (N/S), one oblong brazing hole.

I'm inclined to think it's a Royal Wiltshire Yeomanry cap badge. It's identical to the one shown in Wilkinson's Cavalry & Yeomanry 1914 book, which is also lugged.

Having said that, it could also be a collar badge from one of a few cavalry regts: 3DG or 10H, or possibly a first pattern 12L.

Does the N/S alignment of the lugs make it more likely to be a cap badge? Most similar examples I've seen have had E/W lugs.

Any comments/opinions much appreciated.

David

[Rockape]

Hi David,

You are quite correct in your assumptions regarding this type of POW plume badge. Take your pick from the list. If you want a definite post 1908 Wilts Yeo cap badge, look out for this shape with a slider.

Garry

[davidwyke]

Hi Garry

Thanks for that, it confirms what I suspected. The badge came with a few other Yeomanry cap badges so I think I'll keep that label on it!

David

[pedro alfonso]

Hello!

I have doubts about the badge backing of The Royal Wiltshire Yeomanry in the beret while one Squadron was in The Royal Yeomanry and another in The Royal Wessex Yeomanry during the 1980 decade.

Also, the backing of The Royal Hussars, whose badge was very similar to The RWY.

Thanks for the info.

Regards

Pedro