British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum

Recent Books by Forum Members

   

Go Back   British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum > British Military Insignia > Cavalry, Yeomanry, Tank/RAC Badges

 Other Pages: Galleries, Links etc.
Glossary  Books by Forum Members     Canadian Pre 1914    CEF    CEF Badge Inscriptions   Canadian post 1920     Canadian post 1953     British Cavalry Badges     Makers' Marks    Pipers' Badges  Canadian Cloth Titles  Books  SEARCH
 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 09-10-09, 12:38 AM
yorkie yorkie is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 417
Default 5TH DRAGOONS GUARDS BADGES.

hello gentlemen could i ask your advice on the 1st badge on the photo
enclosed, all three 5th dragoons guards but what is the 1st badge for and why has it got very long lugs.
regards andy.

Last edited by yorkie; 29-01-15 at 11:10 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 09-10-09, 05:26 PM
Mike H's Avatar
Mike H Mike H is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,493
Default

What material is it made from ?
Could be a pouich badge.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 09-10-09, 05:50 PM
irishhorse's Avatar
irishhorse irishhorse is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: N. Ireland
Posts: 898
Default Officers cap badge

Long lugs like these are found on officers cap badges, badge looks to be silver, which would be right.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 09-10-09, 08:33 PM
2747andy 2747andy is offline
Former Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Porthcawl, South Wales
Posts: 7,684
Default

Queen's Crown badge is more than likely an officers badge, later versions were in a frosted (plated) silver finish!

Andy
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 09-10-09, 08:55 PM
yorkie yorkie is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 417
Default 5TH DRAGOON GUARDS

hello gents many thanks for your observations on the badge ,no doubt at all
the badge is silver,had it checked out with a friendly local jeweler and yet it is not hallmarked [is that legal i am not sure].
so the badge is an officers badge ,would that be an nco!. cheers andy.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 09-10-09, 10:28 PM
2747andy 2747andy is offline
Former Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Porthcawl, South Wales
Posts: 7,684
Default

A lot of British Officers badges are silvered (not sure if that is solid), Officers are Lieutenants to Lieutenant Colonels* (Pronounced as Leftenant) Loo tenants are American. Halmarked badges are less common, the rank Lance Corporal and Corporal and in the Guards Lance Sergeant, The Household Cavalry (H Cav) Lance Corporal of Horse and the Artillery Bombardiers are all Junior Non-Commissioned officers (JNCO) and wear standard (Other ranks badges). Sergeants and Colour/Staff Segeants, Corporals of Horse and Staff Corporals (H Cav) are senior NCOs and in most cases wear ORs badges, Warrant Officers in some cases wear a bespoke badge, but are neither NCOs or officers. The H Cav and Guards Regiments in particular have different cap badges for OR, SNCO and WO.

Hope that has not confused too much!

*Colonels, Brigadiers and General wear staff badges.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 10-10-09, 06:35 AM
wright241's Avatar
wright241 wright241 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: In Luxembourg for the last 20 years and staying. They take much better care of us here....
Posts: 2,996
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2747andy View Post
A lot of British Officers badges are silvered (not sure if that is solid), Officers are Lieutenants to Lieutenant Colonels* (Pronounced as Leftenant) Loo tenants are American. Halmarked badges are less common, the rank Lance Corporal and Corporal and in the Guards Lance Sergeant, The Household Cavalry (H Cav) Lance Corporal of Horse and the Artillery Bombardiers are all Junior Non-Commissioned officers (JNCO) and wear standard (Other ranks badges). Sergeants and Colour/Staff Segeants, Corporals of Horse and Staff Corporals (H Cav) are senior NCOs and in most cases wear ORs badges, Warrant Officers in some cases wear a bespoke badge, but are neither NCOs or officers. The H Cav and Guards Regiments in particular have different cap badges for OR, SNCO and WO.

Hope that has not confused too much!

*Colonels, Brigadiers and General wear staff badges.
Andy, What you have said about silver/rank/bespoke etc bears out the
ones I have (all KC) - a couple are HM'd, 2 are marked sterling and one which looks like unmarked silver but also has some sort of dark enamel(?)
within the 'grooves' i.e. it highlights the letters - this particular one is on a side cap - it looks it 'belongs' to the cap and doesn't look as if it has added
at a later date. Now I must look at the others as well. Thanks.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 10-10-09, 02:17 PM
NorthStafford NorthStafford is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 288
Default

It's illegal to hallmark items that aren't silver but not illegal to not hallmark items that are.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 11-02-10, 07:07 PM
dubaiguy's Avatar
dubaiguy dubaiguy is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Scotland
Posts: 620
Default

I was trawling some back threads and came across this one from Yorkie. Hello Yorkie if still a member. Whilst Yorkie was asking for info on the QC badge, the first badge in his photo, what do members think about his third badge.

It is cast, short straight slider, the tail of the 'G' doesn't meet the Roman numeral V and there is a little loss of definition on the top of the 'D' and 'G' where they meet the crown.

I've also looked at some members albums and my reference books and can't find anything like it. Invariably the tail of the 'G' always meets or just about meets the 'V'.

Any learned opinions on why it would be different? Manufacturers cast variant? (I'm interested cos I have one exactly the same that I bought some time ago from an unreliable source).

Thanks
Mark
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 11-02-10, 07:56 PM
wright241's Avatar
wright241 wright241 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: In Luxembourg for the last 20 years and staying. They take much better care of us here....
Posts: 2,996
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by yorkie View Post
hello gentlemen could i ask your advice on the 1st badge on the photo
enclosed, all three 5th dragoons guards but what is the 1st badge for and why has it got very long lugs.
regards andy.
This has been mentioned before.
Having a silver badge assayed and hallmarked costs money - i.e. there is a charge for this 'sevice', and it can take some time. If you have the money and time.... If you don't have either then why wait... an officer may have purchase a silver badge, but he does not have to get it hallmarked. However, the hallmark does add value when 'you' come to sell it as against an unmarked one.

Ref your 5RIDG QC silver badge. I have a HMS one of these and it also has long lugs. Even some of the earlier KC ones also have this feature - I have sterling and HMS versions and one has long, the other 'normal' - I don't know why. I guess that this might be a question for the museum

david

Last edited by wright241; 11-02-10 at 08:00 PM. Reason: Comment added
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 12-02-10, 07:35 AM
dubaiguy's Avatar
dubaiguy dubaiguy is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Scotland
Posts: 620
Default

David, you may have misunderstood me. I understand the situation with hallmarking but my query was concerning Yorkie's scabby w/m badge on the right of his picture (sorry Yorkie).

On this badge the tail of the 'G' doesn't touch the Roman numeral V. All the ones I have seen in books or in members albums touch (as they do in Yorkie's other two badges). I do not see enough badges to ascertain if this is just a manufacturers cast variant or a dud. Your help in putting me right would be appreciated.
Thanks
Mark
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 13-02-10, 11:33 AM
wright241's Avatar
wright241 wright241 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: In Luxembourg for the last 20 years and staying. They take much better care of us here....
Posts: 2,996
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dubaiguy View Post
David, you may have misunderstood me. I understand the situation with hallmarking but my query was concerning Yorkie's scabby w/m badge on the right of his picture (sorry Yorkie).

On this badge the tail of the 'G' doesn't touch the Roman numeral V. All the ones I have seen in books or in members albums touch (as they do in Yorkie's other two badges). I do not see enough badges to ascertain if this is just a manufacturers cast variant or a dud. Your help in putting me right would be appreciated.
Thanks
Mark
Yes I did. Sorry about that.
I have about 8 of these (but no scabby ones....... yet..) in various metals/ silver etc and with only ONE exception - the G tail and V are clearly joined by anything from 2 to 3mm.
The odd one out (funnily enough) is a Firmin HMS 1946 - where the join length (i.e. touching) is about 1mm. From the front there appears to be a gap, but from the back there is the very small join.
david
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 14-02-10, 03:28 PM
dubaiguy's Avatar
dubaiguy dubaiguy is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Scotland
Posts: 620
Default

Thanks David. Then I'm going to make an assumption that if there is a gap and until proved otherwise - it's a fake. Hey ho another one into the 'possibles' shoebox.
Mark
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
5th dragoon guards lugs

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 07:14 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.