Bayonets

[Mike Jackson]

Does a Forum member know a source of reliable information on bayonets - specifically what I believe to be a Norwegian bayonet from the 1930s or 1940s?
Thanks Mike

[Hussar100]

You could try this aptly named site Mike. http://bayonets.com/

The guy who runs the site will do an ident if you send him a piccy from this page http://bayonets.com/page3/page3.html

[ubervamp]

Hi Mike

I have some experience with Norwegian bayonets.
If you send me a pic, or post one here I'll check it out if you like?

Cheers

Colin

[Mike Jackson]

Colin,
Thanks very much. I think the blade marking indicates - in the reign of King Haakon 7th. Mike
Bayonet.Lee.02.jpgBayonet.Lee.03.jpgBayonet.Lee.04.jpg

[Mike Jackson]

Originally Posted by Hussar100

You could try this aptly named site Mike. http://bayonets.com/

The guy who runs the site will do an ident if you send him a piccy from this page http://bayonets.com/page3/page3.html

Many thanks, Mike

[ubervamp]

Mike

I'll have a closer look at the pics when I get to my computer later this evening.

Colin

[ubervamp]

I can confirm it's Norwegian, right off the bat.
Made at "Kongsberg Våpenfabrikk" with a H7 (Haakon 7) stamp

I'll have more for you this evening.

Colin

[Mike Jackson]

Colin,
Thanks. The picture is building
Mike

[buckiebeetle]

Originally Posted by Mike Jackson

Does a Forum member know a source of reliable information on bayonets - specifically what I believe to be a Norwegian bayonet from the 1930s or 1940s?
Thanks Mike

HI, Mike I have got loads of books on bayonets and 251 of my own but a pic and dimensions would help, cheers, John.

[Mike Jackson]

Thanks. Scroll up and you'll see picture and dimensions.
Mike

[Leonard D]

This is the bayonet that was fitted to the 6.5mm Krag Jorgensen rifle that was in Norwegian service in the 30's and 40"s. Some were reiisued by the German occupation forces during the 2ndWW and will oftentimes be found with German proof marks. These tend to fetch a premium in terms of price.
Hope this will help.
L.R

[Myles]

Mike

It looks like the Model 1894 to me. Ref. Paul Kiesling's book.
Someone has ground a few teeth on the back edge though.

Myles

[ubervamp]

Mike

This is a knife bayonet for the Krag Jörgenssen rifle M/1894 with non-matching (Norwegian) steel scabbard with ballpoint. (The Swedish scabbards were blueish).

I'm pretty sure it's manufactured at Kongsberg Våpenfabrikk, Norway;
(It was also produced in Sweden, at Husquarna)

"Kongsberg produced 101750 pieces numbered in the interval 39,001 - 121,000, and spread in the intervals 1-20,000 and 30,001 - 39000
Total: 140.000 bayonets"

The number on your bayo puts it within this number-frame.

(Regarding the German ww2 orders for the bayonet, the early deliveries were identical to the M1894, but with German proof marks and sub standard workmanship compared to M1894 produced earlier)

It has an armoury marking of Haakon 7 (cipher) which in design is consistent for the M1894 (see pic) 1905-57. This states that the bayonet was received by the Norwegian state.
The inspectors mark is harder to make out from the pics.

However:
A few things bother me;

The scabbard is not a match as mentioned.
More importantly, the bayo you show looks serrated. This is not original to the M1894, or any other Norwegian bayonets I have come across?
Also the frog is wrong (see pic for original frog)

In summery, I think what you have is a Norwegian M1894 Krag Jørgensen bayonet, produced in Kongsberg, Norway, 1905 - 1957 (consistent with the H7 cipher) which has been customized at some point in it's life.

Hope this helps!

Cheers

Colin

[Mike Jackson]

Colin (and everyone else who responded)
Thank you all very much - that's all very revealing.
I have just a couple of comments:
1. On closer examination the serrations on the blade have been made by hand - they are slightly irregular.
2. I take your point about the frog, but I'm convinced looking at it and the scabbard that the two have not parted company for decades - the steel scabbard doesn't move a fraction within the frog.
The owner of this item states that his grandfather - a Royal Marine - brought this back from Germany in 1945. Is it plausible that it would have been recovered in Germany, presumably from a PW?
Would the four digit number - 6968 - stamped into the reverse of the frog be the last four digits of a personal number?
Mike

[ubervamp]

I don't see any reason to doubt it was recovered in Germany late in the war.
Germany had been occupying Norway since 1940, and "relieving" the military stores in Norway and it's soldiers (and inhabitants) of their weapons.
It was def not produced FOR the Germans as it lacks the wehrmacht stamping.
It would not have fit the German Mauser, either.
Could have been a souvenir taken back to Germany, and subsequently, re-possessed?
The Germans liked their saw-back knives - maybe the serrations are theatre made?
Also, their were Norwegians fighting in Germany right up to the end.
It becomes very speculative at this point, though.

The number on the frog is a serial number, and the only way to track it is to know the serials used by various manufacturers, then find an order/shipping list to see where they were sent. Basically, frogs, bayos and scabbards were a mish-mash toward the end of the war, the reason why matching serials on blade and scabbard are not very common.
Bayos were broken, frogs lost, and you just took whatever you found/were given - could steal.

The frog in question eludes me, though. It's not a common one, and def not Norwegian. Might be Swedish/Danish? Could it be customized? Trimmed?

Again, this could mean the frog and scabbard have easily been together for 60 years.

I don't see any problem with this being recovered from a PW in Germany.
And it's very common to find a mis-match of various elements. it makes it heartbreakingly difficult to trace, though.

Sorry i couldn't be of more help.

Colin