Royal Warwicks J. R. Gaunt & Son variant?

[leigh kitchen]

George the Northumbrian Otter Hound I think is the mascot that marches with the regiment, Bobby the Black Buck being housed at a zoo.

The hound'll have a better temperament when it comes to marching ahead of The Drums - the Black Buck needs two handlers to control him, when the bass drum gets bashed the Bucks take off like grass hoppers.

[Mike H]

The little goat that one of the Spanish Foreign Legion Banderas has as a mascot looks after its self. No handler nothing,straight down the middle of the road. Video is on YouTube.

[leigh kitchen]

Ah yes - seen a couple of those - uniforms by Jean Paul Gautier, choreography Flick Colby?

[bess55]

Ive just had a look on YouTube. Why do they do that wierd pseudo 'light infantry' march, with super tight trousers . . . and they're all a bit tubby, no?

[Mike H]

Originally Posted by bess55

Ive just had a look on YouTube. Why do they do that wierd pseudo 'light infantry' march, with super tight trousers . . . and they're all a bit tubby, no?

Apparently,you get a choice of chest wig at the stores. Hairy ,very hairy or gorilla !!

['Ticker' Riley]

Many thanks indeed for all the replies Gentleman, and the links to previous threads about matters, all of which have been most enlightening. I had suspected that the badge might not be quite right, which has now been confirmed, though am rather shocked to hear of John Gaylor’s apparent part in matters. Before turning to this, however, can I ask do we have a definite end date for when the Antelope cap badge was last worn, presumably as a bi-metal badge? 1962/1963 maybe??

On what seems to be a ‘fantasy’ anodised aluminium badge, if I am understanding things correctly from what has been said and what I’ve been reading since I made my posting, the consensus is that John Gaylor actually commissioned a series of anodised aluminium badges, like the Royal Warwicks one I put up, and was openly selling these in the 1990s, as illustrated by the copy of his stock list that Tim (grey green acorn) posted up here.

I see from one of Luke’s links that Chris Marsh (hagwalther) put up this interesting posting about how the badges from this ‘unofficial commission’, like my Royal Warwicks, first appeared in the late 1980s, listing it amongst others under the heading ‘The J. R. Gaunt & Son Limited Slider Type’, and saying of these “Although there is no direct evidence that J. R. Gaunt & Son Limited made these badges the discovery of the same slider type (usually Slider 6.9: Step) being used by both camps seems to imply, once again, that the sliders at least originated from a common source.”

Back in 2010 ‘PembrokeYeo’ posted up a fake Birmingham Pals’ badge here which I thought was clearly a match for a badge I had bearing a ‘J.R. Gaunt B’ham’ mark, pictures of which I shared here (the mark on this example was slightly indistinct, though since then I have acquired another one exactly the same with better definition of the mark). As I said at the time, I understood my badge to be a restrike/reproduction made by Gaunt themselves after their takeover by the Birmingham Mint in 1973.

I would, therefore, say there is actually a good likelihood that J. R, Gaunt & Son produced my anodised aluminium Antelope, just as they did my bi-metal one with their mark, specifically for the collectors’ market (the former seemingly under the instigation of John Gaylor). I have to assume that Gaunt’s owners, the Birmingham Mint, were ultimately behind this, as I think I am right in saying they produced reproduction coins, and there is also the well know set of ‘Great British Regiments’ medals and cap badges they issued, with the badges produced by J. R. Gaunt & Son.

What I hadn’t realised until now was Gaunt’s work in manufacturing restrikes and reproductions had, seemingly, lasted from the 1970s through to what looks like the 1990s; I take it in effect from when they were bought by the Birmingham Mint in 1973, until they were sold to Firmin & Sons in 1991, though perhaps things even continued after that? I am also intrigued by Chris Marsh’s comments on the Royal Warwicks A/A badge turning up “sometimes with a fake ‘Smith & Wright’ mark to slider”, and wouldn’t mind seeing one, if someone happens to have one?

Whilst not wishing to add to a potential paranoia over marked badges, these days I am becoming more and more suspicious about badges with marker marks. I have two Leicesters badges with makers’ marks, both of which I am happy are on badges made by the relevant manufacturers, though by now I am wondering if these are actually restrikes/reproductions by the companies themselves, rather than period badges that happen to have been marked. Perhaps makers initially marked them to actually distinguish them as being reproductions? Anyhow, I digress!

I must say here, with regards to cost, I see that there is one of these anodised aluminium Antelopes on the ‘Steady the Buff Militaria’ site for £65 and another had been on ‘Cultman Collectables’ for £45. Although I didn’t pay as much as this for mine, it wasn’t as cheap as Alan’s one he picked up for £5!

Regards

Martin

['Ticker' Riley]

As an addendum to my previous post, looking at Robert Leigh’s ‘Dead Spartan Militaria’ site last night I see he too as a “Royal Warwickshire Regiment staybright cap badge” for £65, but also what is described as a “A super scarce probable trial pattern gold and silver anodised aluminium example” for £135! This might well be the case, but sadly the photos are blurred so it’s not possible to see the detail here or determine if this is the same makers’ variant or not; though it looks like it may well be the Gaunt one.

As I mentioned before, I’d be glad to see one of these Royal Warwicks A/A badges “with a fake ‘Smith & Wright’ mark to slider” that Chris Marsh mentioned, if anyone has one please? I’d also appreciate it if some kind soul could tell me exactly when the Warwicks stopped wearing, what I assume, in the absence of a genuine anodised aluminium badge, would have been the bi-metal Antelope? Thank you.

Regards

Martin

[Neil s]

Hi Martin
Not AA but I note your interest in Royal Warwickshire so here are some officer badges
Firmin
IMG_20220402_135920.jpgIMG_20220402_135901.jpg
Gaunt late jennens
IMG_20220402_140000.jpgIMG_20220402_135939.jpg

IMG_20220402_140046.jpgIMG_20220402_140019.jpg
Gaunt
IMG_20220402_140130.jpgIMG_20220402_140109.jpg

IMG_20220402_140235.jpgIMG_20220402_140210.jpg
Gaunt Collar
IMG_20220402_140335.jpgIMG_20220402_140307.jpg
Firmin Collar
IMG_20220402_140428.jpgIMG_20220402_140400.jpg

[bess55]

Martin, in many years collecting anodised alluminium badges, I've never seen a Warwickshire with and makers marks in the slider - fake or otherwise.

[alan g]

Martin
I have one with a partial smith and wright stamping on the slider, I think that might be the badge Chris refers to
Best regards
Alan

[grey_green_acorn]

Originally Posted by 'Ticker' Riley

I’d also appreciate it if some kind soul could tell me exactly when the Warwicks stopped wearing, what I assume, in the absence of a genuine anodised aluminium badge, would have been the bi-metal Antelope? Thank you.

Regards

Martin

My view is that the Royal Warwickshire Regiment wore the Antelope in bimetal until 1958/1959. They were nominated to the Midland Brigade in 1958 but the name was changed to the Forester Brigade shortly thereafter and a Forester Brigade cap badge was sealed on 14 April 1959. The Forester Brigade badge was worn until 1963 when the regiment became Fusiliers and moved to the Fusilier Brigade.

Tim

[William]

Originally Posted by alan g

Martin
I have one with a partial smith and wright stamping on the slider, I think that might be the badge Chris refers to
Best regards
Alan

Any chance of a picture, please Alan?

Many thanks

William

[alan g]

William
Here it is
Regards
Alan

[Mike H]

Originally Posted by alan g

William
Here it is
Regards
Alan

Well thats not correct .

['Ticker' Riley]

Many thanks again for all the recent responses Gents, all of which are most appreciated. Particular thanks to Neil for sharing all his wonderful Warwicks badges, which are excellent and which I will download and keep for future reference, and Alan for letting me have some snaps of the badge with the “S[mith] & Wright” mark, which definitely looks to be an identical makers’ variant to mine, so would, indeed, seem to be the one Chris Marsh referenced. For those who are interested here is a composite image of Alan’s badge (by his permission):

Alan g Warwicks.jpg

For comparison I’m putting up a composite image of another badge I have of this same makers’ variant, which I believe to be by J. R. Gaunt & Son, though unlike the one I posted in 2010, which I think is a company restrike, this one looks like it might have be actually worn by the regiment?:

Gaunt bi-metal.jpg

I must also thank you Tim, for your outline of what happened to the Royal Warwicks, and the changes in their badges. The Leicesters also became part of the Foresters’ Brigade, of course, like the Warwicks, and I know that their regular battalions were re-badged with the Foresters’ badge in August 1960; though their territorial battalion and cadets apparently continued to wear the tiger cap badge, which was apparently bi-metal (an A/A version did come in later, but I have seen confusingly different dates about when exactly this was).

Presumably something similar happened with the Warwicks? So the Antelope would have gone out once the Foresters’ badge came in, as you say, at sometime post 14 April 1959. Then in 1963 they adopted the Fusiliers’ Brigade badge, which, as has been pointed out, at this early stage, was a round looped version – I think that’s right isn’t it? All interesting stuff it has to be said, and I’ve learnt a lot so I’m very glad I posted my badge up in the first place!

Best regards

Martin