Artillery............the Gun badge

[Marcus H]

Pre 1917 Territorial Force Artillery and devoid of the subsequent honour of Ubique on the scroll.

This one has the twelve leaves on the scroll, there's a ten isn't there too ? (I'm not conversant in British cap badges....yet, touch wood I'll get there !)

[Marcus H]

Honourable Artillery Company on the theme of Territorials.

And that's it for now.

Kr

Marcus

[dragonz18]

Hi Marcus,
nice to see someone else with an interest in Artillery badges
Thanks for posting those to help the thread along !
Here are some more to add to the TF .......

1. The 10 leaves variety (with berries also) has a slider with "Lambourne & Co Birmingham" maker's mark.
2. The 12 leaves variety, struck in w/m. 2 lugs behind the wheel.
3. The 10 leaves variety again (no berries) has a nice looking slider,but has a problem or two,as well! A miss-struck edge on scroll above 'ET'. A 'ghost' cleaning rod head on left (??) top scroll under-fold. This is an odd occurance & not usual, even on normal re-strikes !
These things aside,there are some other features that are usually associated with re-strikes here ,though some may occur on origionals as well......a very high cross & orb on crown,larger RH side on the connecting piece on the centre lower scroll & field.Then the main feature ....a clipped-out section between the Trail towing-ring & the bottom RH scroll end curl.This has been around for a while now & has become more & more pronounced,over time ,so that the more recent strikings have a very noticable 'notch' here now.This is seen on nearly all the really rare variations, 'Cadets', 'West Riding',etc. on Ebay. Take care there, as the biggest majority are duds, now-a-days!
I keep this one though,as it is fairly interesting,for it's extra oddities, just the same.

[dragonz18]

Back to basics, for a brief pause.
The origional British pattern........

1. Standard type,with slider.This one also has a strengthening ring & slider fold-over to the top features. Will post a pic,in the future,if required ?
2. Variation lacking defined edges to the mottoe scrolls. And smaller letters also.
3. Variation with separated & attached 'moving' top wheel. This occurs on virtually all varieties ,including some re-strikes.
4. W/M 'dipped' (as opposed to beeing struck in w/m) standard badge. The easiest way to tell this is that the slider has been 'dipped' also.

Cheers !
Steve

[dragonz18]

Moving along, here........
!. The back pic of previously mentioned badge, just to show the special difference, on this version.
2.& 3. Two varieties of the WW1 Economy version.

Cheers !
Steve

[Marcus H]

Hi Steve,

Thanks for the insight on some pros and cons.

The 'notch' though, could you post a repro with such an detail please, I'm not 101% sure what I'm looking for.

If you see anything dodgy on any of mine be sure to let me know !!

Here's a couple more bog standard examples too.


Kr

Marcus

[Marcus H]

'Moving' wheel sorts.

No hub detail in the middle of the wheel, just the retaining pin visible.

Like the example above, both have been hand vaulted slightly to fit their head dress.

[dragonz18]

Marcus, & others,
will post a pic of the 'notch' detail ,sometime during the week.
Hopefully will do a bigger post, here or on the 'duds-details' section, shortly.
Just a wee bit short of time at present.

Cheers,for now !
Steve

[dragonz18]

Back ,after delays for work commitments & a dose of the Flu.

Update on restrike details.......
labled pic shows areas of identical features shown on the vast majority of restikes,from their main source.As mentioned above. Area 3 is the area of the increasingly obvious notch. Some of these features may appear on various origionals also ,but not all together ,as on these.

Any questions ,just ask

Cheers !
Steve

[dragonz18]

These pics are of a modern variation, Austalian made,but may also have been supplied to other countries as a contract of supply.
Normally the standard type RA badge measures about 65mm wide x 48mm high. These measure 65mm x 52mm high ,and are of a slightly different style also ,when a close comparison is made.
1. Brass ,moving wheel ,3 lugs
2. Similar ,but without the moving wheel, 3 lugs
3. A/A ,moving wheel, 2 pins (N & S)with butterfly clips.

Cheers !
Steve

[Peter Brydon]

one of the very few R.A. cap badges I have- sealed 1954 Queens Crown-non moving wheel and slider J.R.GAUNT LONDON
P.B.

[dragonz18]

8thfoot,
thanks for showing that. Origional metal versions of these ,in the large size,
are difficult to find, I'm told, as they issued the QC version in A/A ,very soon after
this particular version was introduced !

Have still to get one for myself ,and have been looking for quite a while !

Cheers !
Steve

[dragonz18]

An interesting comparrison......
Rare & much copied 'Third Middlesex RGA Volunteers'
The first pic is a possible origional or later strike from an origional die. Just too many differences from the common copies here. Well struck & detailed ,strong with 3 lugs to the back.
Next ,the most common copy .Has all the previously mentioned faults,except the crown looks more proportional as the cross has been clipped off ! This occurs quite often.
Then the back of this badge with a slider ,unusual but not unknown on badges of this pre 1908 period.Then a makers stamp,quite unusual until after WW1.
The 'clincher' here is its the small J.R.GAUNT.LONDON stamp with a full-stop between the T & L .
A well known copy stamp.

Cheers !
Steve

[dragonz18]

The next batch are all re-strikes of exceedingly rare & early varieties.
All made by the same major re-strike manufacturer, with varying degrees of the tell-tale signs shown earlier.Though all are very well made as well.
These are 'fill-ins' until I can get real ones, which would be extreemly lucky & possibly very expensive, so not likely also. As I've said before ,this is really only a side-line of my main badge collecting interests.

Cheers !
Steve

1. 'First Hants RGA Volunteers' .... W/M , blank slider
2. 'Cadet' .... brass , blank slider , clipped off cross on crown
3. 'West Riding Royal Horse Artillery' ....brass , 3 lugs(more normal fixing for this period)
4. 'Warwickshire Royal Horse Artillery' .... brass ,slider with small Gaunt 'T.L ' stamp

None have a moving wheel ,but have seen this on a Warwickshire re-strike.

[dragonz18]

Then there is this one.
'Fifth London RFA Brigade'.
Re-strike ,with the same signs again.
But has a moving wheel & combination of slider & lugs to the back.
This is a feature that I've only ever seen on Officer's Beret badges (approx WW2 period).

Cheers!
Steve

PS: Note that all show signs of reasonable 'Age' here.
This is due to some real age,as they have been around for a wee while now & likely assisted by applied (faked) ageing processes ,as well.