Odd Factory Mark On Anodised Aluminium Badge

[hagwalther]

Hi Guys,

Sent to me by a member.

Buffs badge by Smith & Wright with 'R' to reverse wreath.

Mine has same.

I have an idea what it may have been used for but would like other opinions.

Regards

Chris

Your Buffs badge is a genuine one and Smith and Wright are, of course, a well documented manufacturer. I suspect the capital 'R' to the reverse is a batch code purely for the manufacturer's reference and for quality control purposes. Some badges have numbers for the same purpose and the more proficient manufacturers tended to apply greater quality control than, say British Badge and Button Co., who were responsible for issuing a lot of mis-struck badges, reflecting a lower standard of quality control. Just mu opinion, of course. Regards. David

[Mike H]

I was told that the "R" mark meant reproduction,that these badges were produced in the late 1990`s.It was only done on a batch of Buffs badges.

I wasn't aware that any Smith and Wright badges or buttons were re-struck. If anyone knows to the contrary I would be pleased to hear as it affects some research I am carrying out at the moment on Birmingham badge and button makers. Regards. David

[bess55]

Originally Posted by Mike H

I was told that the "R" mark meant reproduction,that these badges were produced in the late 1990`s.It was only done on a batch of Buffs badges.

I've been racking my brain and this rings a bell with me too regarding the stamped 'R' under the slider on this particular badge. Sorry Chris, probably not what you want to hear!

Bess

[hagwalther]

Thanks Guys,

'R' for Reproduction or Replacement as in 'Replacement Die' perhaps?

Was the purpose of issue a commemorative piece for a reunion?

It is a very modern item and very different to my early Smith & Wright examples but it does though show all the signs of manufacture of an original anodised aluminium cap badge.

Keep thinking on this one if you can...

Regards

Chris

A replacement die would not constitute a 'replacement' (?) or restrike badge. Manufacturers often replaced dies as they wore-out or were damaged in the presses and I would see little point in marking a die simply because it replaced a previous one. Of course, there is the possibility that the entire badge is a restrike, done by someone with access to a good, sharp die and a Smith and Wright slider punch - stamping a big 'R' to show it was a restrike - but I doubt that. Has anyone else on the Forum got an anodised aluminium badge with a mark to the reverse ? Surely this can't bed the only one in existence. Regards. David

[Mike H]

Ive seen a few of these badges,it was when i inquired regarding this mark that i was told that they were reproduced badges.This was mid to late 90`s.1990 would have been the 325th anniversary of the Buffs,or possibly for the forming of the PWRR slightly later in the decade.

Mike H - Who told you that these were reproduction badges ? I would be fascinated to know. According to the Smith and Wright archive, the dies were never permitted to be used for other than contract striking. The floating theories that badges were struck for this anniversary or that pageant really don't hold water. Of course, some were but they tended to be easily recognised for what they were. Even pre 1855 buttons were restruck for pageants but they were easily identified by anachronistic backmarks. Waterloo shako plates were struck by the hundred for the entente-cordiale at the turn of the 19th/20th centuries, as were a host of oval shoulder belt plates of different regiments - but they can all be identified as bona-fide copies. This cap badge is different in that it has a Smith and Wright slider - not J. R. Gaunt - and I would be truly interested in any evidence to suggest that S and W badges were copied. Regards. David

[Mike H]

Information came from the British Badge Collectors society,of which i was a member of for a number of years.

[bess55]

Originally Posted by David Douglas

Mike H - Who told you that these were reproduction badges ? I would be fascinated to know. According to the Smith and Wright archive, the dies were never permitted to be used for other than contract striking. The floating theories that badges were struck for this anniversary or that pageant really don't hold water. Of course, some were but they tended to be easily recognised for what they were. Even pre 1855 buttons were restruck for pageants but they were easily identified by anachronistic backmarks. Waterloo shako plates were struck by the hundred for the entente-cordiale at the turn of the 19th/20th centuries, as were a host of oval shoulder belt plates of different regiments - but they can all be identified as bona-fide copies. This cap badge is different in that it has a Smith and Wright slider - not J. R. Gaunt - and I would be truly interested in any evidence to suggest that S and W badges were copied. Regards. David

David,
Is the smith & Wright archive accesable on line at all? Would it mebntion anything about style of slider? My only observation is that the slider looks very late. The usual example is the rounded, soft and thin type that we normally see on Smith & Wright examples which generally do tend to be the earlier made anodised alluminium badges. The Buffs became part of the Queens Regt in December 1966 which is some time ago now and perhaps we would expect to see the usual early type slider. My observations only as ever gents.

Regards all

Bess

[hagwalther]

Originally Posted by Mike H

Information came from the British Badge Collectors society,of which i was a member of for a number of years.

Mike, do you have any paperwork with this recorded?

Regards

Chris

[Mike H]

No Chris,it was all from verbal conversations.I think the situation was similar to that of the Gurkha Museum where they mark their badges with with "copy"

[hagwalther]

Originally Posted by Mike H

No Chris,it was all from verbal conversations.I think the situation was similar to that of the Gurkha Museum where they mark their badges with with "copy"

Hi Mike,

Gurkha Museum in Winchester CERTAINLY DO NOT DO THIS - Well, back in 2000 they didn't as muggins here bought a load at the museum shop only to find out later that most were not anodised aluminium (I was pretty much a novice back then - still am so some members here tell me...) or if they aluminium they were chromed etc. etc. etc.

No badges there with the 'I'm not a fake/reproduction' warning mark or I would never have bought them in the first place.

Possibly things have changed.

Regards

Chris

[Mike H]

Chris,Gurkha parachute coy badges from the museum exist with copy stamped on the back.As what you bought were probaly current issue at the time or just amalgamated/renamed,they were the genuine item.