Metal v Staybrite

[dak580]

G'day members

Living in the land down under I get very little chance to see let alone feel the new British Army badges. So I was hoping members could answer a few questions?

I have noticed with the few ‘new’ regimental badges I have purchased that they appear to be moving away from the a/a staybrite material into a more substantial metal.

So my questions are

Are there plans to get all British regiments badges made in metal rather than staybrite or will some continue being made and worn in a/a?

If so what new regiments have members seen metal and what regiments are still a/a?

Have any of the new regimental badges changed size/colour with the new amalgamations?

Are there anymore amalgamations or disbandments in the pipeline in the near future?

Should the Queens Royal Lancers cap badge have crossed lancers behind the motto?
I always thought this was the old 17th arm badge but have seen it advertised recently as a cap badge.

Cheers
John

[hagwalther]

Hi John,

I'll be keen to get answers here too as I'm trying to find out the timeline of manufacture of staybrite badges.

This will be a thread for me to watch.

Regards

Chris

[Alan O]

John,

The MOD has been no longer ordering a/a badges for a few years. Various regts have been created recently and they have ordered badge in improved metals. The PWRR have gone for a Bronzed badge while others have gone for gilt, silvered metal or enamel badges. Other regts have changed their designs and used that change to introduce a better quality badge. for example the QLR introduced a new design in 2003 and the RLC issued a new badge (same pattern but improved metals) to coincide with their 10 year anniversary.

To muddy the waters further some regts do not wear the issued a/a badges but buy them privately and the soldiers buy their own from the Regtl PRI shop. This is particularly prevelent in the cavalry and parachute regiments but is not unheard of eleswhere.

All existing regtl badges will be in future made in improved metals but existing a/a stocks will be used up first. These are now beginning to filter through and you saw several infantry badges with the new badges shortly before they amalgamated and got a new design anyway.

All the new regts created in the last round of amalgamations have improved metal badges. There are no plans (in the public arena anyway) for any more amlgamations.

Alan

[hagwalther]

Originally Posted by Alan Owen

John,

The MOD has been no longer ordering a/a badges for a few years. Various regts have been created recently and they have ordered badge in improved metals. The PWRR have gone for a Bronzed badge while others have gone for gilt, silvered metal or enamel badges. Other regts have changed their designs and used that change to introduce a better quality badge. for example the QLR introduced a new design in 2003 and the RLC issued a new badge (same pattern but improved metals) to coincide with their 10 year anniversary.

To muddy the waters further some regts do not wear the issued a/a badges but buy them privately and the soldiers buy their own from the Regtl PRI shop. This is particularly prevelent in the cavalry and parachute regiments but is not unheard of eleswhere.

All existing regtl badges will be in future made in improved metals but existing a/a stocks will be used up first. These are now beginning to filter through and you saw several infantry badges with the new badges shortly before they amalgamated and got a new design anyway.

All the new regts created in the last round of amalgamations have improved metal badges. There are no plans (in the public arena anyway) for any more amlgamations.

Alan

Hi Alan,

Do you know the date the last badge was procured was and for whom?

Regards

Chris

[Jibba Jabba]

Should the Queens Royal Lancers cap badge have crossed lancers behind the motto?
I always thought this was the old 17th arm badge but have seen it advertised recently as a cap badge.

There should be lances behind the motto, however many members of the former regiment particulary the 17/21st wore their old badges and when the new badges with lances were issued they snapped the lances off!

That snippet came from a very reputable source.

[Alan O]

The QRL cap badges do not have lances today. They are identical to the 17/21st Lancers badge. There was talk of adding lances to the regtl badge and you see this on some paperwork but the cap badge stayed as it was.

The 17/21st Lancer Officers and ORs continued to wear near identical uniforms and badges post amalgamtion with the exception of the Regtl s/t, collars and rank slide title.

Alan

[Alan O]

Originally Posted by hagwalther

Hi Alan,

Do you know the date the last badge was procured was and for whom?

Regards

Chris

Chris,

I don't have an exact date for the ADC decision but it was around 2003. Certainly the old designs (such as LI and Yorkshire Regt) can be found in improved metals with that date on the manufacturers packaging. There was no sudden switch over and for example the Argylles, BW and KOSB were still wearing a/a on amalgamation into the RRS where as the Highlanders were already wearing the improved metal badges on their NCOs and ORs No1 Dress bonnets. While some Bns (such as the QLR with their new badge) had done away with a/a even some of the new designs were not being universally worn within the Bn on amlgamation. I certainly saw the Kings wearing both the small and large horse badges at the same time in 2003.

Alan

[oc14]

Originally Posted by Jibba Jabba

There should be lances behind the motto, however many members of the former regiment particulary the 17/21st wore their old badges and when the new badges with lances were issued they snapped the lances off!

That snippet came from a very reputable source.

Suggest that you have a word with your "very reputable source". As Alan says, QRL badge are not and never have been made with Lances. I work with several members of the Regiment. The only place where Lances are worn behind the badge are on the TRF (Tactical Recongnition Flash) and on the Sgt's Mess Kit bullion embroidered arm badge.

By the way, regimental custom in the QRL dictates that it is not referred to as a cap badge but as the MOTTO (also sometimes referred to as Chad).

The new regiment adopted the Motto of the 17th/21st Lancers, the collar badges of the 16th/5th Lancers, buttons from the 17th/21st and New shoulder titles reading QRL

Paul
OC14

[Jibba Jabba]

Indeed I did get mixed up After some clarification from RHQ the badge I`m getting muddled up with is the Corporals Arm badge. These were disliked by the regiment and every last badge returned to the manufacturers. They are often seen for sale on eBay.

They did make up some rank arm badges as worn by Cpls and above, but the first pattern was so awful, they were sent back to the manufacturers, you still see them come up on E-bay. Soon after they adopted an embroidered arm badge which they still wear today.

By the way OC14 you have missed a Motto from your list, the 'the colour plate'.

[Mike H]

I was led to believe that the lances appear behind the "MOTTO" on all paperwork etc as this is the Regimental crest.

[Mike H]

Originally Posted by Alan Owen

Chris,

I don't have an exact date for the ADC decision but it was around 2003. Certainly the old designs (such as LI and Yorkshire Regt) can be found in improved metals with that date on the manufacturers packaging. There was no sudden switch over and for example the Argylles, BW and KOSB were still wearing a/a on amalgamation into the RRS where as the Highlanders were already wearing the improved metal badges on their NCOs and ORs No1 Dress bonnets. While some Bns (such as the QLR with their new badge) had done away with a/a even some of the new designs were not being universally worn within the Bn on amlgamation. I certainly saw the Kings wearing both the small and large horse badges at the same time in 2003.

Alan

MPSC started to wear metal badges made by AMMO UK around 1999.At the time we asked if they were genuine due to the maker and was told yes they are genuine issue.

[hagwalther]

Originally Posted by Alan Owen

Chris,

I don't have an exact date for the ADC decision but it was around 2003.

Alan

Thanks Alan,

I'm going to move this information to the definition.

Looks like we have a final time line to 2003 or at least 'approx. 2003'.

All we need now is a start time line.

Regards

Chris

[dak580]

Guys

Many thanks for your replies really great information very much appreciated.

You have all answered many of my questions up until now I could only have had a guess at.

Many thanks again
John

[hagwalther]

Originally Posted by Mike H

MPSC started to wear metal badges made by AMMO UK around 1999.At the time we asked if they were genuine due to the maker and was told yes they are genuine issue.

Hi Mike,

Who are MPSC and AMMO UK and who answered the question on the items being genuine?

Regards

Chris

[oc14]

MPSC= Military Provost Staff Corps (The staff of the Military Corrective Training Centre in Colchester)
AMMO UK, are a badge manufacturer.

If it helps with dates etc, I acquired the following Staybrite cap badges in Firmin bags today with dates as shown:-

Royal Signals (NSN 8455 9997 41173) Dated 4/11/04
Royal Artillery (Beret size) NSN 8455 9997 42267 Dated 28/9/06
Royal Monmouthshire Royal Engineers NSN8455 9997 39952 Daed 12/7/07

Paul
OC14