Royal Warwicks J. R. Gaunt & Son variant?

[bess55]

Martin, as an addendum regarding the Fusilier Bde/RRF collars. There are many variations. Generally found with the George & Dragon device attached by small alloy tabs (visible on the rear) or a small copper rivets. My guess is that the tabbed examples are the earlier. There is also an all one piece collar. I only have one and not a pair unfortunately - very unusual. I'm out of the country at present, but will post some images for interests sake when Im home.
A very interesting thread guys, thank you.

[leigh kitchen]

I would think that the collar badges with rivets are the earlier pattern, those with tabs (if you mean the splayed, flat, pointed blades type) the later.

During the 1970's I only ever saw and was issued with cap and collar badges with rivets.

The stable belt badges (which were private purchase and could only be purchased with belt plate and as complete stable belt, not just by themselves) came in riveted and by the mid- late 70's in tabbed versions.

[3dg]

Originally Posted by leigh kitchen

3dg may chip in here, the round lug version of the Fus Bde / RRF Badge was worn by the regiments of the Fusilier Bde, the later flat pierced blade type lugged by RRF, but he's discovered some interesting info concerning dates of use.

I'll start a new thread soon regarding Fusilier Brigade badges if anyone is interested?
Sorry to hijack this thread.
Chris

[leigh kitchen]

Sounds good.

[Staffsyeoman]

Originally Posted by leigh kitchen

The Fusilier Brigade wore collar badges of the same design as the cap badge, and the St George and dragon within crowned wreath button design, the button giving way to the R Warks Crown, royal garter and antelope design after the R Warks joined the Brigade.
As with the cap badge, there's a slight difference in appearance between the Fus Bde and RRF era collar badges due to different dies being used.
I've not heard of the RNF, R Warks, RF and LF collar badges continuing in wear by the regular battalions of the four Regiments within the Brigade but can't state with certainty that they weren't.

These images were posted on another site some years ago.

Edit: image of collar dogs added, earlier pattern on the lef (acquired during the 1970's while I was in 1 RRF), later pattern (issued to me in November 1972 at Dept The Queen's Division) on the right.
The differences aren't very obvious in the photo, but the left hand badge has a slightly larger and deeper flame pattern and the gap between ball and flame is slightly taller than the other.

Best photographic proof I've ever seen. These a/a Antelopes were utterly unknown until the early years of this century; enquiries at the museum (where I'm a friend) reveals no knowledge of their having been made for any reunion - the veterans I meet all wear metal Bobbies - so all I know is this was made without authorisation. They are nicely made, and have never been "official". Paying £50 for one is bonkers.

[leigh kitchen]

Found a thread I'd been looking for, I couldn't remember who'd posted that they'd been a recruit at St George's Barracks, Sutton Coalfield when the R Warks Regt joined the Fusilier Brigade - it was forum member BILL DUGGAN".
I was wondering if whoever had posted was actually in the R Warks, but Bill Duggan was in the Lancashire Fusiliers so probably doesn't have knowledge of which R Warks collar badges were worn.

https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/fo...siliers&page=3

['Ticker' Riley]

Just a brief message of thanks for the latest contributions to this thread, which, as always, are appreciated. I’ve found the information on the early Fusiliers Brigade badges most interesting, especially as it relates to when the Royal Warwicks became the Royal Warwickshire Fusiliers, so would be happy to see more detail on this Chris – thank you.

Turning back to the badge that was the subject of this thread, I see one of these is now for sale on ebay, though mismatched with the later hackle. I’ve also found another example with a more complete “Smith & Wright” mark than Alan’s badge; composite image attached:

Smith & Wright Warwicks.jpg

I can understand now why Chris Marsh thought such a mark was fake, when compared with other Smith & Wright marks on anodised badges, because, as far as I can see, genuine ones have “Smith & Wright Ltd”, but also the middle of the ‘W’ in such marks isn’t the full height, as it is in the mark on the Warwicks ones. Anyhow, thank you again for all the responses.

Regards

Martin

[dubaiguy]

Edit: image of collar dogs added, earlier pattern on the lef (acquired during the 1970's while I was in 1 RRF), later pattern (issued to me in November 1972 at Dept The Queen's Division) on the right.
The differences aren't very obvious in the photo, but the left hand badge has a slightly larger and deeper flame pattern and the gap between ball and flame is slightly taller than the other.[/QUOTE]

Leigh
I've been selling a small bag of RRF collars that came my way, on eBay bit by bit and was down to my last 3 pairs. Though I could pair them pretty easily I actually hadn't noticed there was a significant difference in shape or at least I hadn't known the significance of any difference. What a relief, of the 3 pairs left, one pair seems to fit the early 'Brigade' type with the bigger gap between ball and flame and has the motif fixed by wire tabs.

Now that you've really got me paying attention at last, I note the 'ball' is also significantly deeper. Hopefully these side shots may show it. (Deeper on on left).

Thanks Leigh for bringing that to my attention, I can now add a pair of early collars to my wire looped Brigade badge.
Mark

[leigh kitchen]

I was unaware of the wire tab mounted crest collar dogs other than for officer's gilt and silver ones unless they were something I didn't pay much attention to.
There was a time when I could spot if beret and collar badges were Fus Bde or RRF while they were in wear, nowadays I have to work at identifying them when the things are sitting on a desk in front of me.

[dubaiguy]

I know the feeling...................

Rear view of fixings.

[Neil s]

Couple of new acquisitions Martin might find interesting

Unmarked cap
IMG_20220416_162253.jpgIMG_20220416_162214.jpg

This collar is a good match for the other
Gaunt but uses a different back stamp
IMG_20220416_162136.jpgIMG_20220416_162115.jpg

[Neil s]

Ludski London Collar
IMG_20220824_164432.jpgIMG_20220824_164400.jpg

[Phillip Herring]

Originally Posted by leigh kitchen

George the Northumbrian Otter Hound I think is the mascot that marches with the regiment, Bobby the Black Buck being housed at a zoo.

The hound'll have a better temperament when it comes to marching ahead of The Drums - the Black Buck needs two handlers to control him, when the bass drum gets bashed the Bucks take off like grass hoppers.

An RRF officer (and former CO of the TA battalion) was posted to Kingston, Ontario. He had some colourful stories about dealing with "Bobby", the Indian Black Buck. Two handlers required and good luck catching a replacement when the current one died or was retired.

Something about "bloody great horns".

Phil