RDF badge help please.

[DUBLIN-13]

I have attached two pictures of a badge I got recently but my question is , is it a lapel badge? Any advice/help would be helpful.

Thanks

[appie_b]

Based on the direction of the tiger & elephant I would think it is a collar badge (right).

Albert.

[John Mulcahy]

It's an officer's mess dress collar badge, worn in facing pairs.

Shown in Crown & Company 1911-1922 between appendix 11 & 12 (first published 1923) - a very nice and unusual find.

John

[DUBLIN-13]

Thanks lads , I was sure it was a lapel badge but wanted to have someone with more knowledge to cast an eye over it.

I have attached some pictures that I took a couple of months ago. The badge in my original post , as far as I can remember, seemed different from the one on the jacket. Sorry the pics are not the best quality as I used the camera on my phone.

[John Mulcahy]

The badge in your first post seems to be to be essentially identical to the badges shown on the mess dress collar.

The badge in the first post is abraded and worn a bit at the flame tips and as hand made items I would expect variation from badge to badge.

The badge on the FSC is interesting, I have long wanted to dig into what was authorized for Fusilier officers on the FSC and whether the FSC was routinely worn with mess dress. Anyone got any insights or comments on this? Also may I ask where the photos in post 4 were taken please, no sinister motive, simply if a museum that was accessible, I would like to note it for potential visit.
John

[Toby Purcell]

The badges are from the 1902 pattern (i.e. roll collar) mess dress. Before that the insignia was positioned on the ball of the grenade as appropriate for a standing collar, which was previously worn.

[DUBLIN-13]

Originally Posted by John Mulcahy

Also may I ask where the photos in post 4 were taken please, no sinister motive, simply if a museum that was accessible, I would like to note it for potential visit.
John

.

I took the photos in the library on Pearse Street in Dublin. I attended a talk given by the RDF Association there and they had on show some of the item that were donated to the RDFA archives that are housed there. As far as I know these items can be viewed there but it might be worth making a phone call before you go to make sure.

The badge in my first post is of realy good quality with little damage.

Thanks again for the input.

[DUBLIN-13]

John I dont know if you already seen this but I have taken a couple of photos of a colour plate from "Neill's Blue Caps Vol 3". The pictures are take with my phone and are not as clear as I would like for you to look at but I typed out what it says underneath about the cap.

Officer's Blue Field Service Cap of blue cloth.

Specially authorised by the War Office in commeration of the Regimental Nickname "Neill's Blue Caps," granted for distinguished service in the Indian Mutiny.

[Toby Purcell]

Originally Posted by John Mulcahy

.

The badge on the FSC is interesting, I have long wanted to dig into what was authorized for Fusilier officers on the FSC and whether the FSC was routinely worn with mess dress. Anyone got any insights or comments on this?
John

Hello John, I too have been interested in this aspect of fusilier dress. When considering that aspect it is worth bearing in mind that head dress was only rarely worn with mess dress at all, unless either, an officer was on duty (officer of the day) and had to check the guard and picquets, or the entire mess was visiting a brother unit's mess for a guest, or games night. As most mess functions were in one's home mess, there was rarely a requirement to wear head dress, other than those few officers travelling in from the married quarters, or single officers bungalows (when abroad) where the latter were separate from the main mess building.

All the above said, it seems that forage caps were in a majority of cases laid down, with either, the peaked forage cap for the majority of regiments, or the pillbox cap for cavalry, artillery, rifles and others such as ASC. However, from 1902 and 04 the dress began to change, firstly with roll collars and the removal of gold lace, and then the phasing out of the pillbox cap from around 1904. After the latter date the new peaked forage cap was laid down for all, but in mounted units the FSC became a popular and convenient alternative (more easily stowed) and it seems that a number of infantry regiments (but not all) eventually followed suit.

It seems that in several fusilier regiments the badge was initially worn on the front (certainly the RDF and NF, to mention just two), but later on the common i.e. 'grenade shaped' badges, tended to be positioned on the side, at a tilted back angle for RA, RE, and fusiliers too. I have never been able to find out clearly enough though, just when these changes took place and how many of the fusilier regiments followed them.