Badge Legends

[Sonofacqms]

I am sure that most collectors have had stories told them by people who basically know nothing about badges, but the stories lead the mind to wander on what may have been . . !

My story is one I heard nearly thirty years ago in Devon, the basis of this tale of intrigue is a scrapyard in the West Country in the 1950-60-70's.
Basically the scrapyard which today would be described as a recycling centre had a bath, the size of which is unknown, into this bath any badges that came along were thrown into it. For how long this went on, one can only speculate, but one of my friends who was a dustman in the 1960's used to give me cap badges which were all originals, so I guess there were lots of badges of all types thrown in the bath.

One day a visitor to the scrapyard saw the bath and offered the owners £5 for the bath and it's contents. Apparently the owner thought this was a good offer and accepted, £5 being worth considerably more than it is today.
My fantasy is what was in the bath; lots of RASC and ASC, Artillery and Engineers, RAF etc, but surely there were Volunteer Btns, shoulder titles and collar badges that one would only dream of owning.

Has any other forum member heard this story?

[2747andy]

My uncle, having done his National service (16th Indp Para) left the Army and for a short time worked at Sennybridge Camp as a recovery driver. He often reminds me of the 40 gallon oil drums of metal cap badges that were filled ready for scrap in the late 50's. You must remember that the introduction of anodised badges meant that most soldiers got a few minutes extra sleep, as there was no requirement to polish the cap badge before bed or before breakfast (depending on how keen you were?). Sleep is a very important comodity to a soldier (and with over three decades of service myself I speak from experience!!) so they rushed to get the "New" badges, just like anything new you cannot wait to get one? Little did they know then that anodised aluminium badges would be disliked or in a lot of cases become worth 10 times their metal predecesor?

Andy

[Faugh-A-Ballagh]

Can't beat either of the above, but the legend in Northern Ireland was Miss Abraham's tailor shop in Clifton Street in Belfast, which had numerous sweet jars full of badges. Long before my time, but my father remembers it fondly, and some of my collection originated there. I wonder if any other collectors remember this place?

John

[wright241]

Originally Posted by Faugh-A-Ballagh

Can't beat either of the above, but the legend in Northern Ireland was Miss Abraham's tailor shop in Clifton Street in Belfast, which had numerous sweet jars full of badges. Long before my time, but my father remembers it fondly, and some of my collection originated there. I wonder if any other collectors remember this place?

John

John,
Not exactly sure whether it was the same shop, but if it was open in 1961/2, I used to get embroidered and printed cloth shoulder titles there. Huge selection.
I seem to recall that it had gone (under or taken over etc) when I went back in 1970.
david

[NEMO]

Hi there ,
I too have heard the tin bath story , the time frame of the 1960`s -70`s is the same but i was told it was an army surplus dealer ,he did sell army tools ,picks ammo boxes also - so this is where the scrap merchant idea may have originated ? anyway , i was told he had a tin bath full of cap badges ( alot of them plastics coz no one wanted them ....)

So the story goes if you spent £5.00 he would say

" help ya self to a hand full of them my boy "

I was told this story twenty years ago and over the years I have asked a lot of the main badge dealers about it and many have heard it but dont know the origin or infact if its true.

Then theres is the ` rag picker ` story ......

In the years after the war huge amounts of uniforms were sold off back into the textile industry.
Yorkshire is well known for its role in the textile Industry , towns like Batley
and Dewsbury had huge set ups for converting rags ,uniforms etc into shoddy and mungo to be blended back in with new wool .
I was told a story that all the cloth badges rank formation signs brass buttons etc had to be cut off by hand or they would contamintate the new product or the buttons would jam up the machine ,

so , the story goes there were tubs full of buttons ,cloth signs , badges , buttons , all to be dumped , A dealer from my home town grew up in Dewsbury and as kid In the holidays would help out cutting the badges off and whilst ` Sid or Alf ` go and have a break and a sly cig . his reward been he could keep the badges
Ive lost track of the dealer now but i did trust him and believe the story and it is backed up by other collectors from the area ,Nemo

[kingsman]

Time - Summer of '61
Place - Ladysmith Barracks, A U L
Job - Recruiting team 1/King's (M&L)

Request from curator Col. U**** of Regimental Museum of the Manchester's " Would you lad's spare me some time to clear some rubbish just don't have space for it anymore".
Rubbish consisted of 15 - 18 tea chests containing
mixed blue cloth helmets complete with all badges and fitting's,
army biscuit tin half full of plastic badges.
mixed officers,or's and bandsman scarlet jackets with collars attached,
Leather and web equipment dating back 100 years.
These we transported to the barracks incinerator and burned, I now wake up in the middle of the night and feel physicly sick thinking about the historical and current monetary value of what we destroyed.

[NEMO]

now that does make me weep !

[Unknownsoldier]

I got offered something the size of an ammo box full of plastic badges, at a pnny a time.......... I like a complete *********** **** Said no-thanks.... bet this will in many years have become a bath-tub

Tom

[signalman]

I wonder what happened to the bath?.

[Sonofacqms]

I'm glad the tin bath story has been heard by someone else, whether this is fact or fiction will probably never be known. Nemo's story of a bath and if you spent more than £5 the invite to help one's self, smacks of William Tobin when he sold militaria in the sixties down the Elephant and Castle.

When my Father worked for a sub-contractor to the Ministry of Supply in the fifties, delivering military vehicles to Ruddington in Nottinghamshire, he often told me as a young badge collector that he had seen boxes of badges which were coming up for auction, whether he was there when they were "knocked down" I don't know. I often said he should have bought some, but he was not interested in that amount of badges.

[Cardiffbloke]

It was melted down and used for re-strikes by Madam Marsh!

[Sonofacqms]

It must have been one hell of a bath, probably Olympic size!

[Peter Brydon]

My two little tales, not on the scale as some of the previous ones.

First one, apparently the local Crewe branch of the Royal Engineers Association used to meet at a local pub,The Cross Keys which was a very large building and they actually had a room on the first floor which was their clubroom and which they used exclusively.

Over a period of time members would donate their old uniforms and other items and those of their relatives to the Association and the clubroom developed into a bit of a museum.

There came a time when the landlord changed and he was no longer prepared to allow the Association to have exclusive use of the room , so the contents of the room had to be disposed of - No problem, they had a bomfire in the yard at the rear of the pub and burnt the lot.

The tale was told to me by a local collector who was absoloutly sure that among the uniforms were at least one full dress tunic of the Cheshire Engineer Volunteers.

Second tale, when I first moved to Crewe from Liverpool with my job,when one of my new collegues found out I collected militaria he said that I must go to the Hinds Head pub in Norton in Hales.

I asked why and he said the whole pub was decorated with militaria.I had to go and have a look and as soon as I entered the pub I recognised it immediatley. A picture of inside of the pub had been used by one of the Breweries for their 1976 Callendar ( see picture )

I went back a couple of months late and all the militaria had gone and the pub had changed completely.

I asked one of the bar staff what had happened and was told that the landlord had changed and the previous landlord had put all the militaria into a local auction, the prices achieved were on the low side but then the trouble started because people started turning up at the pub saying that they had loaned items to the old landlord on a temporary basis and that rather than him selling the items,they would have liked them back.

By this time the orignal landlord was well and truly gone

P.B.

[Sonofacqms]

Peter, I have heard the sad story of the ritual burning in the back yard before, possibly on the forum, but the pub photo with the militaria looks very interesting. It's always the same when a pub has a change of landlord, they have to put their own special pawprint on the place, I feel sorry for the guys who lent items and did not get them back, they could not have been regulars as I am sure they would have asked where the items were when they were missing.

There was a pub at Bassingbourn (where the Memphis Belle was based) in Cambridgeshire which was decorated with militaria in the late sixties/early seventies, I think it was called the Wagon and Horses, I never took much notice of the name when I went there, but all the badges etc are long gone I believe, where to, I know not. Hopefully not burnt in the yard!

[Peter Brydon]

Sonofa,

I was actually a bit annoyed when I discovered that the items in the pub had been put into an auction but only because I did not know about it until after the event.

This would have been about the late 1970`s or early 1980`s and the the items would have gone into a local general auction ( certainly the auction was not advertised widely )

Whilst I cannot remember what the barman told me was the average price of the lots, I do remember thinking some of the rarer items were virtually given away.

Some time later my work took me to an empty shop in Audlem not that far from the pub .In the shop there was a copy of the callendar ( the one in my pictrure ) and the owner kindly let me have it.

Interestingly I seem to recall that a couple of large displays of badges which have appeared in Bosleys auctions over the last few years have been described as having previously hung in pubs for many years.

Will check when I have some time to see if one of the pubs was the Wagon and Horses.

Peter

P.S. The back of the Callendar actually had a key to indentify some of the items shown on the front, for example
g) Tunic of the Second Battalion Hodnet Volunteers-victorian.Tunic of a Quartermaster Sergeant showing sharpshooter badge and service stars
v1) Volunteer Reserve Decoration (India )
H) Helmet of Cheshire Yeomanry early victorain ( overseas pattern)
Q) Helmet of 12 Lancers -early victorian

Perhaps not the most accurate descriptions in some cases but shows the sort of things involved