Scottish Regiment experts please - British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum

davec2 · #1 08-02-10, 11:34 AM

Hello gentlemen,

Another opportunity to show my lack of knowledge and I'm asking purely because I want to know !

We've heard this morning of the sad loss of two more soldiers, this time to the Royal Scottish Borderers, I know the regiment is an amalgamation of the R.Scots and the KOSB's and that they wear the Royal Regiment of Scotland cap badge.

I've just been reading up and came across several photo's of the band and amongst other things I noticed, such as the different plaid brooches ( I wish etc ), I also spotted what I assume were cross belt badges to their original regiments.

Two in particular were easy to spot, I think, one appeared to be a Royal Scots badge but the other has me baffled, have I missed something ? it seemed to be a lion on a crown and I would say it was in excess of 50mm in dia.......... I've had a quick look thru' Bloomers and didn't see it, I did spot the KOSB's collar badges !!

Can anyone enlighten me please ?

Dave.

PS Here is, I hope, a link to the sight showing the photo's [ http://www.bing.com/search?q=royal+s...NH90&mkt=en-gb ], then click on " The Royal Scots Borderers in Barga/Barganews ", the single slightly larger pic shows the ' lion and crown ' badge I'm referring to and the second in the group of fifteen shows the Royal Scots badge............................................. ..again thanks.

DC

wairua · #2 08-02-10, 11:49 PM

Hiya, no doubt on such a knowledgeable site someone will be able to provide a fuller explanation, but as a starter for ten, it’s not unusual for Pipers to wear a range of badges on their cross belts. This sometimes means different badges being worn within the same band to reflect as much of the unit’s history as possible. Not sure what the lion and crown badge is though.

The Pipes and Drums in particular have been to the forefront of ensuring that “The Golden Thread” is maintained linking the new Royal Regiment of Scotland battalions to their antecedents (i.e. the Pipe Majors collar dogs and a Piper shown wearing a Royal Scots plaid brooch).

One thing that maybe isn’t clear from the article is that the troops in the red tunics are not Pipes and Drums. They’re The Band of the Royal Regiment of Scotland, established from the Regular Lowland and Highland Bands on the new Regiments formation, which explains the Drum Major wearing a Lowland Brigade plaid brooch with a Highland Brigade badge on the baldrick.

Glad you posted the link, not often you see such clear shots published of the P&D’s and Mil Bands. Shows the new tartan well and the Drummie’s expression in images 5 & 6 is a cracker.

Cheers,
Wairua

Alex Rice · #3 09-02-10, 08:16 AM

Hi Dave
This is a new one to me but it appears to be a lion on a QVC. I have been on parade with the massed bands of the Scottish Division and had a chance to look at the uniforms. A lot of regiments worn old badges (ie pre-1901 replicas) on their cross belts. As the KOSBs were, to the best of my knowledge, the only regiment that used the royal crest on their badge in the past, this is probably a newly deciced way of keeping that honour on the uniform. Perhaps the regimental museum could shed some light on the matter.
Cheers,
Alex

fougasse1940 · #4 09-02-10, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davec2

the other has me baffled, have I missed something ? it seemed to be a lion on a crown and I would say it was in excess of 50mm in dia.......... I've had a quick look thru' Bloomers and didn't see it, I did spot the KOSB's collar badges !!

Can anyone enlighten me please ?

Dave.

Hi Dave, that would be the KOSB Pipe Major's shoulder belt plate, known as the Dog and Bonnet, 4x5cm.

Rgds,
fougasse1940.

davec2 · #5 09-02-10, 10:27 AM

Thanks fougasse,

Without a doubt, you are a star, as always, your time is appreciated.

Regards.

Dave.

1stTankie · #6 09-02-10, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fougasse1940

Hi Dave, that would be the KOSB Pipe Major's shoulder belt plate, known as the Dog and Bonnet, 4x5cm.

Rgds,
fougasse1940.

Hi Dave

Congratulations to fougasse1940, beat me to it. Absolutely right. I was told that this was a regimental possession handed down to successive Pipe Majors. The nearest we can get to the original one in appearance is a 15th Hussars Arm badge, the one shown is hms qvc. The one pictured in your post is shown in Robin Hodges book and is a shadow of a proper one. (IMO!)
Years ago, in the Scottish United Services Museum, in the KOSB case, there was a kc version displayed, similar in all respects to the 15th Hussars one attached, together with an outline of the reasons why it was worn. Sadly I cannot find my note on that at the moment

Best wishes

Gordon

davec2 · #7 09-02-10, 12:16 PM

Cheers Gordon,

I guess it would be safe to say that if I ever wanted one of these it will almost certainly be a copy ? but they are very impressive badges, are they not ??

Was I right in assuming that amalgamated regiments ( particularly in this case ), wore the badges on the cross belt to highlight their individual regiments ??

Again thanks.

Dave.

1stTankie · #8 09-02-10, 04:29 PM

TQUOTE=davec2;59583]Cheers Gordon,

I guess it would be safe to say that if I ever wanted one of these it will almost certainly be a copy ? but they are very impressive badges, are they not ??

Was I right in assuming that amalgamated regiments ( particularly in this case ), wore the badges on the cross belt to highlight their individual regiments ??

Again thanks.

Dave.[/QUOTE]

Hi Dave

Unlike bandsmen/musicians, who suffered amalgamation and decimation "The Pipes and Drums" are Regimental Soldiers and God protect anyone outside brave enough to even contemplate making changes. The Battalions of the Royal Regiment of Scotland treasure and cherish their separate identities and will do all in their power to retain them. Hence the reason why we will continue to see the likes of the "Dog and Bonnet".

This is just the general theme. I'm sure there are Scots on the Forum who will tell you this with much more passion and lucidity than this poor sassenach(if that's how you spell it!)

Best wishes

Gordon

davec2 · #9 09-02-10, 06:23 PM

Hi Gordon,

[ Unlike bandsmen/musicians, who suffered amalgamation and decimation "The Pipes and Drums" are Regimental Soldiers and God protect anyone outside brave enough to even contemplate making changes. The Battalions of the Royal Regiment of Scotland treasure and cherish their separate identities and will do all in their power to retain them. Hence the reason why we will continue to see the likes of the "Dog and Bonnet". ]

That's how I saw the situation, it makes me think of the R.Berks and their Brandywine flash, the red backing was kept right thru' until the RGBWLI were finally amalgamated and now it's gone.

Re your earlier e-mail, that is definitely the badge I was asking about, thanks very much for that, I won't even bother putting it in my wants list, ah well !!

Regards.

Dave.