The Garter

[Donny B.]

I have noticed that a number of my badges have a depction of the Garter and its motto "Honi Soit Qui Mal Y Pense". I know the story of the Order of the Garter and the "Shame on him who thinks evil upon it" meaning of the motto but why does it feature on so many British badges. Is there a rule that allows or requires some badges to have it while others do or can not have it?

It may be a silly question with an obvious answer......the whim of the badge designer...... but I have often wondered upon it.

Any explanations out there?

Donny

[wright241]

Originally Posted by Donny B.

I have noticed that a number of my badges have a depction of the Garter and its motto "Honi Soit Qui Mal Y Pense". I know the story of the Order of the Garter and the "Shame on him who thinks evil upon it" meaning of the motto but why does it feature on so many British badges. Is there a rule that allows or requires some badges to have it while others do or can not have it?

It may be a silly question with an obvious answer......the whim of the badge designer...... but I have often wondered upon it.

Any explanations out there?

Donny

My understanding was that it meant 'evil to him who evil thinks' or I have lost something in translation here?

[Donny B.]

Yes, you are correct!

The internet gives several translations, all with loosely similar meanings. Wikipedia claims the literal translation from OLd French is "Shame be to him who thinks evil of it" or more strictly "Let him who thinks ill there be shamed". It is sometimes re-interpreted as "Evil be to him who evil thinks". Wikipedia goes on to give some other understandings for the same phrase. I am sure King Edward would have wanted to shame his sniggering courtiers, rather than wish evil upon them.

Anyway, if "Evil be to him who evil thinks" is the meaning intended on the badges, why is it used on so many of them. Is there some sort of association among the units that use that motto. I am just trying to understand my British badges a bit better.

Donny B.

[wright241]

Originally Posted by Donny B.

Yes, you are correct!

The internet gives several translations, all with loosely similar meanings. Wikipedia claims the literal translation from OLd French is "Shame be to him who thinks evil of it" or more strictly "Let him who thinks ill there be shamed". It is sometimes re-interpreted as "Evil be to him who evil thinks". Wikipedia goes on to give some other understandings for the same phrase. I am sure King Edward would have wanted to shame his sniggering courtiers, rather than wish evil upon them.

Anyway, if "Evil be to him who evil thinks" is the meaning intended on the badges, why is it used on so many of them. Is there some sort of association among the units that use that motto. I am just trying to understand my British badges a bit better.

Donny B.

Donny,
Wish I could help more with the why? I assume that it is because of some link between someone who was linked in the early days to a regiment and was also a member of the 'order of the garter'. This is pure conjecture on my part. I don't - unfortunately - have any regimental histories that use this motto otherwise I could have the answer. There are members of this forum who also belong to the Heraldic society - which I keep meaning to join.... and undoubtedly the answer from one of these guys will be immediate.
Good luck.

[Alan O]

The motto is found on that of the Royal Standard and its use reflects the regts' association with the monarchy rather than any other regtl specific battlehonour or meaning.

[Alex Rice]

Hi All
I think you need to remember that virtually every pre-1881 helmet plate for the regular infantry had the regimental number or motif inside a garter. Even the 1881 - 1914 officer's HP's still had the garter on the plates. I'm sure the later use would be in part anyway, a carry-over from the early design.
Cheers,
Alex