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  #1  
Old 02-10-21, 11:23 AM
Dave S Dave S is offline
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Default Novices and Fakes

As a total noob to the world of cap badges, I got well and truly done over on ebay and one particular seller in general but as far as I am aware ebay are against fake and counterfeit goods being sold and I have used this in the past to get refunded so I am putting most up for a return as fakes to see where it will go, luckily the seller has refunded for some of the badges he sold to me so that will be a partial acceptance on his part that he accepts the badges are bad.
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  #2  
Old 02-10-21, 11:39 AM
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Luke H Luke H is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave S View Post
As a total noob to the world of cap badges, I got well and truly done over on ebay and one particular seller in general but as far as I am aware ebay are against fake and counterfeit goods being sold and I have used this in the past to get refunded so I am putting most up for a return as fakes to see where it will go, luckily the seller has refunded for some of the badges he sold to me so that will be a partial acceptance on his part that he accepts the badges are bad.
This is getting tiring.

The sale of reproduction cap badges is not illegal.

The seller did not advertise any of their items as original.

They state clearly in all their descriptions in BOLD capitals:

PLEASE BE FULLY AWARE THAT I AM NOT A DEALER OR A COLLECTOR OF CAP BADGES AND I HAVE NO KNOWLEDGE ABOUT THE SUBJECT, THE ITEMS LISTED ARE FROM MY LATE FATHERS COLLECTION AND I NEED TO FIND NEW HOMES FOR THEM ALL, THEREFORE WHAT YOU SEE IN THE PHOTO'S IS THE EXACT ITEM AND THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT YOU WILL RECIEVE

OBVIOUSLY IN A USED CONDITION AND REMAINS PRESENTABLE AS SEEN


You have made assumptions or thought you knew when you did not. I genuinely do sympathise with that but you cannot blame the seller publicly, call them a bad seller and insinuate they’ve done you over. Frankly you have done yourself over.

I could understand a degree of ache if this was a business seller pumping out new badges claiming they’re dad’s collection but this does genuinely seem to be what he says.

Unfortunately as is the case with most collections assembled post-1970s there are a lot of fakes but also a few nice pieces.
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  #3  
Old 02-10-21, 11:49 AM
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Alan O Alan O is offline
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I am afraid that ebay is awash with fakes and the few genuine items on ebay are either very expensive or often sniped by dealers who then sell them on their own websites. It's a minefield.
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Old 02-10-21, 12:10 PM
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Although my main collecting area is British Legion I have learned a lot since joining the forum which , I personally think , applies to any new collector.

1. Start small , rather than buying a lot of badges for different regiments/wars decide on one and move on when you have a bit more confidence in spotting fakes/repros.

2. Do a bit of research (plenty of posts/threads on here) on the specific badges you are after.

3. Carefully read the seller's descriptions ! If it states the item is genuine at least you have comeback if it turns out not to be. Some sellers won't use the phrases fake/restrike/repro in their main heading , this may only appear in the 'small print' description lower on the page.

4. When you decide on a specific area to collect check with forum members if there are any specialist books/articles relating to that area.

5. As I have found out , information on the internet is not always correct but there are members here who have a vast pool of knowledge/information.

While doing some research I found a quote which I feel applies to collectors :

Quote:
So, nearly a hundred years on, there are still questions to be asked and research to be done.
.
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  #5  
Old 02-10-21, 12:40 PM
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Frank Kelley Frank Kelley is offline
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Ebay is, in my opinion, not the place for any novice to be be without taking advice first regarding the item being sold and the seller actually selling it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave S View Post
As a total noob to the world of cap badges, I got well and truly done over on ebay and one particular seller in general but as far as I am aware ebay are against fake and counterfeit goods being sold and I have used this in the past to get refunded so I am putting most up for a return as fakes to see where it will go, luckily the seller has refunded for some of the badges he sold to me so that will be a partial acceptance on his part that he accepts the badges are bad.
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  #6  
Old 02-10-21, 12:45 PM
Dave S Dave S is offline
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SORRY GUYS FOR IT BEING TIRING ETC
but the news is all the ones i put forward to ebay for refunds as being fakes are being refunded, i guess it is all down to knowing what your buying rights are concerning things like this
time to start again on the right foot
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  #7  
Old 02-10-21, 12:50 PM
Dave S Dave S is offline
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i would suggest luke h that you read the ebay terms and conditions rather than the pathetic reasons for sale and then you will get to know what your buying rights are, anything fake or counterfeit is a big ebay no no, whatever it is that is being sold , it is all there in the t and c's
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  #8  
Old 02-10-21, 01:17 PM
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leigh kitchen leigh kitchen is offline
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I have some magic beans for sale but I may keep them to use as ear plugs to combat the high pitched whining I keep hearing when I open certain threads on the forum.
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  #9  
Old 02-10-21, 01:28 PM
Dave S Dave S is offline
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sorry if I have offended in any way but I would think the ability to get refunded for buying fake goods of any calibre would be good news to anyone so disadvantaged to be in that situation, badges, coins, stamps, antiques it's all the same thing, i may be a rookie on the subject of British cap badges but after 30 years of metal detecting I do know my stuff on many historical subjects and have had good finds placed in museums, so I look at it as swings and roundabouts, its all there to learn,
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  #10  
Old 02-10-21, 01:41 PM
mm1 mm1 is offline
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Default badges

Hi Dave,

I can sympathise with you regarding buying fake items on ebay, but you can't expect to run by the forum every badge you have bought to try and get a positive remark. Looks like you have poured a lot of money into badges with the wrong sellers. Please take note of the advice from fellow members here and, as I said very early in similar posts by you, buy from dealers who have a good reputaion or buy on here. Use this forum to research badges before buying(there is a search section available to research old posts for many badges)and don't start criticising long standing members or you will just P everyone off.

Mark
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  #11  
Old 02-10-21, 01:46 PM
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leigh kitchen leigh kitchen is offline
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Apologies for being a bit of a ***** with my last post, I really do sympathise, we've all been done over with these badges and ebay is a minefield.
I'm not sure how badges which aren't stated to be original fall into the category of fake in terms of an ebay refund when there's a legitimate market for repro/copy badges.
It's good that you've had success in obtaining refunds but at the risk of prolonging to-ing and froing on the subject is that success down to ebay rules or sellers good will?
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  #12  
Old 02-10-21, 02:09 PM
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lifeochil lifeochil is offline
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Forums are not the only places to learn and most forums are seeing a serious reduction in active members because they're going to places like Facebook.
There are places that can be good for getting factual info but also can be bad as well.
Tbh collecting today is a two-edged sword.
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  #13  
Old 02-10-21, 02:15 PM
Dave S Dave S is offline
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i must apologize as well been a stressful time, I have an autistic 16 y.o. lad who is obsessed with lego and dr who and I thought it might be good to get him interested in certain other things like badge collecting as he has shown interest in the wars but finding out all I had was a bag full of fakes blew that out of the water add to that he got run down crossing the road outside his college yesterday and spent until 2 am in the hospital I am not in the best of moods today although that isn't an excuse really.
anyway, when I initiated the returns the seller cut off communication and requested eBay to decide if I should be refunded and eBay found in my favour as it has an anti-fake policy, I suppose if the ad isn't worded correctly then you have grounds for a refund
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  #14  
Old 02-10-21, 02:23 PM
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leigh kitchen leigh kitchen is offline
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Certainly grounds to be stressed - a way forward in terms of developing an interest may be to collect repro badges.
I'm not a fan of repros but it would avoid the risk element, all depends on how important it is to "hold" history rather than just a modern symbol of the history.
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  #15  
Old 02-10-21, 02:30 PM
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mike_vee mike_vee is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave S View Post
sorry if I have offended in any way but I would think the ability to get refunded for buying fake goods of any calibre would be good news to anyone so disadvantaged to be in that situation, badges, coins, stamps, antiques it's all the same thing, i may be a rookie on the subject of British cap badges but after 30 years of metal detecting I do know my stuff on many historical subjects and have had good finds placed in museums, so I look at it as swings and roundabouts, its all there to learn,
Hi Dave ,

I initially found the descriptions/terminology to be confusing :

FAKE - not true, real, or genuine : COUNTERFEIT, SHAM

REPRODUCTION - REPRODUCTION, DUPLICATE, COPY, FACSIMILE, REPLICA mean a thing made to closely resemble another. REPRODUCTION implies an exact or close imitation of an existing thing.

RESTRIKE - a coin or medal struck from an original die at some time after the original issue.

It would be illegal to sell any of the above if you claimed it was genuine/original but not if you clearly stated that it was a reproduction or restrike.

A well know eBay dealer who sold 'fake' military badges was prosecuted by Trading Standards , he had been investigated and found to have made hundreds (if not thousands of items) but was actually charged with "supplying a poppy pin badge that was in breach of a trademark; and having in his possession for supply, poppy emblem badges in breach of a trademark."

If a seller clearly states that a badge is a repro or restrike he is not , legally , doing anything wrong and would not have to accept a return if someone mistakenly 'assumed' it was genuine.

If the seller claims they do not know if a badge is genuine it is up to the buyer to decide if the want to take the risk.

As others have stated , it's a minefield , but with some research .....and patience it can be a really great hobby , so don't get stressed and simply learn from any mistakes you've made.

.
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