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#31
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... back to you. |
#32
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A file has been "taken" to it, who do you think would do a thing like that?
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#33
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Thank you Luke and Slinky for providing a picture of a known "Martin Marsh FAKE" LRDG badge.
Unfortunately I am going to agree with Edyc7, that the cast badge which this discussion is all about, is not copied from the Martin Marsh fake. However, I can tell you that it does look like a cast copy of an early issue die stamped LRDG badge which has the same unmistakable line that runs down the back up past the eyes. The question I am at odds with, was the copy made during or after WW2. Last edited by atillathenunns; 25-01-20 at 04:36 AM. |
#34
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Does this die stamped badge you speak of have a raised outer rim on the circlet? I bet not. It’s clear to see this fake had one which has been filed away. The appendages, their length, shape, segments, the angles of the segments, proportions and attachment points to circlet, letters and other appendages all match the MM fake exactly (notwithstanding the missing end of the back right leg). The scorpions body segments whilst intentionally worn down also match, so does their shape, lines and number. The letters appear to be the only thing which at a glance one would think don’t immediately match. However, again I’m certain has been aided by a poor cast and a file. Note how the L has a very fat horizontal line but almost anorexic vertical on both. Someone with a fake badge, a file and the means to make a casting has set out to do a job here and make a rare ‘theatre made’ badge. |
#35
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The cast badges were extensively rubbed when in use during the war as were most badges.
I pointed out the cephalothorax was widely split in comparison to the reproduction badges. No amount of rubbing could do that. No amount of rubbing could cause the reversal of vertical abdominal lines from being on top of the horizontal ones to below them. The circles on the cephalothorax are raised on the fake reproduction badges whereas the lines on the cast badges are linear and not raised but are grooves. These grooves are also found on the early die stamped badges. Investigating images of desert scorpions will show that these groves are actually present on some species.This points to the fact that the creator of these early cast badges had some knowledge of the scorpion anatomy as was the case in the later war badges were the tiny median eyes appeared. As for the tail touching leg , this was present on the first LRDG,NZ LRP badge and was probably there to strengthen the tail. I put it to you that the reproduction badges made in the 70’s may have been modelled after these early cast badges. |
#36
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The bottom line is that this is not an accepted standard pattern of LRDG cap badge and without impeccable provenance most people wouldn’t want it or pay for it
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#37
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I wonder why someone would sell something for US$806 less than they paid for it?
It's quite a fascinating story and I'm sure more will come out later.
__________________
Researcher 39th Battalion, Kokoda campaign and Australian sappers. |
#38
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I have some photos of Shaun’s die stamped touching tail LRDG badge, when I find them it will post the pictures. Quote:
It is my opinion, and it does stand to reason, that the Russell King design would have been based on a genuine LRDG badge, with the addition of a pebbled wheel so it could be easily identified as a reproduction. Quote:
Anybody able to supply a picture of the back of a MM fake badge? Last edited by atillathenunns; 25-01-20 at 04:43 AM. |
#39
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To be honest, in my books heavily worn/defaced and cast LRDG badges are always a bit of a big red flag, but the lugs on the one in question tick some boxes for me, which is something fakers always get wrong, so I think its worth rattling the cage to see what comes out. I have to ask, what’s your interest, why didn’t you buy it when you personally handled it, if you knew it was pukka it must have been a bargain given its condition? |
#40
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Just out of interest, the most common variation of LRDG badge that everybody offers up on this forum is usually the die cast version, the irony is that most of the original LRDG die cast badges that are posted on this forum were never actually issued to members of the LRDG, and only came on the market after the death of Major-General D. L. Lloyd Owen who was the Chairman of the British LRDG Association. So, for those forum members who own an original die cast LRDG badge, it would be interesting to see how many have provenance that dates their badge before April 2001. |
#41
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Edyc7 posted a picture of a LRDG badge in post #35 and described it as an early cast badge.
So, I might as well play one of my aces early. However, I am of the opinion this badge is not cast but die-stamped. The picture was sent to me by the son of Major-General David Lloyd Owen. Until now I have never posted the back of the badge online but have shared it privately to a few LRDG enthusiasts and forum members without the graffiti. The lugs have been pinched flat, but the rest of the back IMO is a perfect example of an early wartime die-stamped LRDG badge, retaining some of its black finish. Lioyd Owen's son confirmed to me that the back of the scorpion is dished in, which is why IMO it has retained quite a lot of black finish on the back of the scorpion. The obverse of the badge has seen a lot of polishing, probably wartime and post war. DLO badge obverse.jpg DLO badge reverse.jpg |
#42
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The badge does have a depression on the back and I presume the metal was originally blackened as I have another that is so blackened. I am honored to say that I am the owner of the David L. Lloyd Owen badge that was depicted in my post (left). |
#43
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Well played sir, I am pretty sure I know who you are, would you be so kind to provide better pictures of the back please?
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#44
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__________________
Army Commando: Setting Europe ablaze since 1940 |
#45
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I know another forum member has some of the Associations badge records and photos of sample reproduction badges. Hopefully they will see this thread and post some pictures. To answer your question, no I am not inferring that they are not of war time manufacture. What I am saying is that it is very likely that many of the die cast LRDG badges that are featured on this forum were never issued during the war. |
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