Anodised Aluminium Cap Badges By Firmin

[engr9266]

HI Bess, I was told when I brought the gold A/A badge that it was for "HAMPTON COURT WARDENS" How true this is I still don't know

[hagwalther]

Originally Posted by engr9266

HI Bess, I was told when I brought the gold A/A badge that it was for "HAMPTON COURT WARDENS" How true this is I still don't know

Hi Jerry,

I think they were also used by Nelly the Elephants keeper at some sort of zoo - maybe not but I think I can remember them on the clothing of the parkies at the Royal Parks in London back in the 1980's. Guys giving out deck chairs etc.

More local, to me at least, is that I am sure that I saw one on the epaulette of a New Zealand army officer here in Wellington a few months ago when some overseas deligation cane to town. I have a feeling he was dressed as some sort of equerry complete with gold lanyard etc.

Regards

Chris

[hagwalther]

Originally Posted by bess55

Hi Jerry,
I have the gold anodised version of this badge which incidentally has a very early Smith & Wright slider on the rear. I believe that the gold version was something to do with Museum staff - not nowadays though I doubt. Like you, I would guess it was utilised by several 'Home Office/Governmental/civil service' type posts.

The Norfolk Yeomanry - as you state - is wider and more 'squat' in shape. Mine has a HW Timings slider. A reasonably uncommon anodised cap badge.

Regards all

Bess

Hi Bess,

Have you got images of your badge?

This one has been made as an unofficial commission with London Badge and Button co Sliders (1973 onwards) and also with fake Timings marks.

Also, I have found no info re: this badge in A/A.

Can send you fuller details by email if you like.

Regards

Chris

[Mike H]

I was told that its for the royal parks police

[REMEVMBEA1]

I picked up a Royal Monmouthshire (Engineers) AA QC crown today in an exceedingly scruffy beret for £5 , not too bad I thought.

[GriffMJ]

Chris

This is a Firmin 1RD AA Eagle..... its basically the Gaunt eagle. Is this a post Gaunt acquisition production do you think?

The early cold War Firmin Bi-metal eagle is very different.

[Mike_2817]

Originally Posted by engr9266

Chris, Still no joy on these badges? I started a thread to id the badge but nothing yet.
I have seen one of these worn by the Queen's Bentley driver on the Diamond Jubilee but could not make out if it was gold or sivler A/A badge.

The 'Royal Cypher' is used for many things, but in military terms, I only know of the Norfolk Yeomanry with a slider, The Home Office uses the Crown only.

and as 'Aide-de-Camp', Enquiry to the Queen or other officers holding honorary appointments to the Queen. in these cases they come in varying sizes in Gold, Silver & Black to match the regiment or Corps of the Officers

Hodges illustrates them on page 464

The Royal Household also use the Cypher

The cypher changes with each monarch and is used as part of many badges at the centre

The Royal Parks use a stylised crown and Royal Parks Police use EIIR or the Royal Arms

[hagwalther]

Originally Posted by GriffMJ

Chris

This is a Firmin 1RD AA Eagle..... its basically the Gaunt eagle. Is this a post Gaunt acquisition production do you think?

The early cold War Firmin Bi-metal eagle is very different.

Hi Griff,

When I researched Firmin for my book I discovered that, on 19th February 1991, Firmin & Sons acquired Gaunt. As the 1st Royal Dragoons amalgamated, in 1969, to form the Blues and Royals one has to surmised that it is from Firmins own die unless the two companies shared it.

Regards

Chris

[GriffMJ]

Chris

I understood the time difference between the amalgamation date and the Gaunt acquisition date, I just thought of a restrike for Cav' Memorial parades etc? Looking at the back of the badge it does have a different image to that of the Gaunt. I just found it a bit odd as its a complete departure from their (Firmin) initial bi-metal design?

[altcar73]

Originally Posted by hagwalther

Hi Griff,

When I researched Firmin for my book I discovered that, on 19th February 1991, Firmin & Sons acquired Gaunt. As the 1st Royal Dragoons amalgamated, in 1969, to form the Blues and Royals one has to surmised that it is from Firmins own die unless the two companies shared it.

Regards

Chris

It is my understanding that Firmin & Sons bought the right to use the name "J.R.Gaunt" but that the Gaunt dies which lay in several large metal containers in Firmins yard for a number of years were subsequently sold as scrap. That information came to me from a Firmin employee. If you write to Firmin asking about the "takeover" they apparently assert that they simply "bought" Gaunt. However, it was apparently not as clear cut as that. Indeed, there is still a "J.R.Gaunt" existing in Birmingham to-day which apparently make insignia. That company either were or are engaging in a legal argument over intellectual property rights with Firmin.

Dave.

[altcar73]

Originally Posted by Mike_2817

The 'Royal Cypher' is used for many things, but in military terms, I only know of the Norfolk Yeomanry with a slider, The Home Office uses the Crown only.

and as 'Aide-de-Camp', Enquiry to the Queen or other officers holding honorary appointments to the Queen. in these cases they come in varying sizes in Gold, Silver & Black to match the regiment or Corps of the Officers

Hodges illustrates them on page 464

The Royal Household also use the Cypher

The cypher changes with each monarch and is used as part of many badges at the centre

The Royal Parks use a stylised crown and Royal Parks Police use EIIR or the Royal Arms

Prior to 1975, the Royal Parks Keepers used an A/A gold coloured Cypher surmounted by the QC as their cap badge, smaller versions were worn as collar badges. In April of that year, as a result in an amendment to the Parks Regulation Act, the Royal Park Keepers were renamed as the "Royal Parks Constabulary". Thy initially wore the same Cypher and Crown as a cap badge BUT in a chrome coloured A/A plus smaller versions as collar badges. This combo was short lived and the cap badge was later changed to a "custom" RPC badge bearing the name of the force. The collar badges continued to be worn unchanged. The RPC ceased to exist on 8th May 2006 upon amalgamation with the Metropolitan Police. During the intervening period they had a number of badge changes.

Dave.

[altcar73]

Duplicated post.

[hagwalther]

Originally Posted by altcar73

It is my understanding that Firmin & Sons bought the right to use the name "J.R.Gaunt" but that the Gaunt dies which lay in several large metal containers in Firmins yard for a number of years were subsequently sold as scrap. That information came to me from a Firmin employee. If you write to Firmin asking about the "takeover" they apparently assert that they simply "bought" Gaunt. However, it was apparently not as clear cut as that. Indeed, there is still a "J.R.Gaunt" existing in Birmingham to-day which apparently make insignia. That company either were or are engaging in a legal argument over intellectual property rights with Firmin.

Dave.

Thanks Dave,

The 'Gaunt' company these days has, so my own and other members of the forum's inquiries tell me, has nothing whatsoever to do with the J.R. Gaunt & Son company that we all know from the past.

Regards

Chris

[Mike_2817]

Re Post #86 - Thanks for the update Dave, this is not really my interest, but it keeps within the usage of the 'Royal Cypher' as described. It seems to be almost a collection in its own right!

[altcar73]

Originally Posted by hagwalther

Thanks Dave,

The 'Gaunt' company these days has, so my own and other members of the forum's inquiries tell me, has nothing whatsoever to do with the J.R. Gaunt & Son company that we all know from the past.

Regards

Chris

Chris,

Not according to their web entry which reads "Manufacturing since 1733 re-established 2010"

Dave.