Foxes' masks query

[lettman]

I have a bunch of questions centring around the 10th Armd Div sign of the red fox mask on the black ground, and whether or not the Armd Bdes under its command actually wore that sign:
1) When did 8th Armd Bde adopt its own badge of the red fox mask on a yellow ground, and did the Bde ever wear the 10th Armd Div version?
2) Did 9th Armd Bde ever wear the 10th sign or did it adopt its white horse sign from the outset?
3) Did 24th Armd Bde adopt the 10th Div's sign by the time it fought at Alamein, or did it retain its parent 8th Armd Div sign (the green 'Go')?

Apologies if this is a bit confusing, but hopefully some members can help me clear it all up!
Thanks for any help.

[Mike Jackson]

For starters, here is a Sherman of C Sqn RWY on parade in Aleppo, Syria in 1943. NZ Div fernleaf and the 9 Armd Bde white horse are painted on the flanks but the Commander's BD blouse is devoid of flashes. Other images in the series fail to reveal any formation signs being worn on BD by the spectators, some of whom will have been 9 Armd Bde. Mike

[Mike Jackson]

And the picture this time!
Yeo.RWY_Malmesbury_Aleppo_1943.01.jpg

[lettman]

Thanks for this, Mike. Interesting to see that nothing is being worn on BD, even by the unit CO. I guess the nub of my enquiry is: who the b****y hell actually wore the 10th Armd Div sign on their uniforms?? I'm starting to believe that very few personnel actually did, but I'm more than happy to stand corrected.

[lettman]

Correction: obviously not the unit CO; the OC C Sqn?

[Mike Jackson]

Originally Posted by lettman

Thanks for this, Mike. Interesting to see that nothing is being worn on BD, even by the unit CO. I guess the nub of my enquiry is: who the b****y hell actually wore the 10th Armd Div sign on their uniforms?? I'm starting to believe that very few personnel actually did, but I'm more than happy to stand corrected.

I recently did a great deal of research into, inter alia, Staffs Yeo, SRY, YH, RWY and Wk Yeo and did not find a single image of the sign of 10 Armd Div being worn. Perhaps looking into the divisional units - Gunners and RASC - might be more fruitful. 30 years ago searching for a 10 Armd Div sign I asked a former JNCO of 1 HCR if he had one he could spare me. He told me quite firmly that in the Middle Easy his regiment thought such things as formations signs were quite unnecessary and it was only under duress that they later wore the Guards Armd Div sign in NWE. Mike
10 Armd Div RASC.jpg 10 Armd Div.03.jpg

[lettman]

That's a very telling finding, Mike, and tends to support my theory that it wasn't much worn. My query was generated by the fact that I actually have a pair of shoulder slip-ons just like the one you've illustrated, but with red and yellow RAC arm-of-service strips. Like you, however, I can't seem to find any examples of its being worn by armoured units.

[Mike Jackson]

Originally Posted by lettman

That's a very telling finding, Mike, and tends to support my theory that it wasn't much worn. My query was generated by the fact that I actually have a pair of shoulder slip-ons just like the one you've illustrated, but with red and yellow RAC arm-of-service strips. Like you, however, I can't seem to find any examples of its being worn by armoured units.

If the slip-ons you mention have no room for officers' rank badges they could well have been worn by any non-commissioned member of the RAC serving in HQ 10 Armd Div. Any chance of seeing an image of the slip-ons? Mike

[lettman]

I generated a brief thread on them here, Mike, many moons ago. You can also see how washed out the fox masks are:
http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/for...ight=10th+armd

[Mike Jackson]

Thanks. Excellent items. On digging around in my collection I note that one of my examples of the 10 Armd Div fox's mask (identical to yours) was donated by the late Brig PWD Sturdee RTR who served as a Staff Captain in HQ 10 Armd Div in 1942. He was later 2IC/CO 6 RTR, 7 Armd Bde and then CO 48 RTR, 21 Army Tk Bde and after all that, in 1949, he was CO 1 RTR in BAOR. Mike

[lettman]

Sturdee -- now that's an interesting surname here in Australia from a WW2 perspective. Vernon Sturdee was a Lt Gen in the AIF and became Chief of the General Staff. I wonder if there's a connection? Many thanks for this information.