Two "Holy Grails" in one day !

[gurkharifles]

Just received today, two "Holy Grails" in one day ! The first is a cast badge to the 3rd Gurkha Rifles with Victorian crown. There is an example illustrated in the Gurkha Museums book on the insignia of the Regt - described as something of a "mystery" - and possibly a servants or followers badge. I'm not so sure. There are 4 different variants known - two with a Guelphic Crown and two with Victorian crowns. The use of "Goorkhas" in the title suggests that they date to pre 1891 when the title was changed to Gurkhas. The badge is also identical to the crest used on the Regimental stationary of the period - so my own belief is that that they were worn by the regiment - these are the only head dress insignia shown in the GM book for this period ( why would servants badges survive but not other ranks or officers badges?) - I think the Museum was reluctant to attribute them because there are no photographs of these badges being worn - maybe one day an old album will emerge and the mystery will be solved, but delighted to have one in my collection.
The second "Holy Grail" is the badge to the 1/4th Goorkhas Scouts. Certain Gurkha Regiments raised units of Gurkha Scouts in the 1880's. These carefully selected soldiers tended to serve on detachment from their parent unit and at times were brigaded together to form reconnaissance units. The 4GR provided scouts and they had their own badge although no record of any official recognition of this badge is known. The badge has a Kings Crown but still uses the "Goorkhas" title which had changed in to Gurkhas in 1891 - no examples of a badge with a Victorian crown has ever been seen. The badge is as rare as rocking horse poo - ( no other Gurkha Regt has a Scouts badge as far as I'm aware - I've been looking for this one for over 25 years!
Now that I have it in hand I'm struck by the similarity to the badge of the Northern Bengal Mounted Rifles - it's too much to be a coincidence - so there must be some connection between the two units - If anyone can help with that connection I'd be very grateful. Tim

[Wooffy]

Always great to hear when someone secures a long sought item for their collection - but to get 2 !! (Time to buy a lotto ticket?)

[Khyber]

Tim, some lovely badges! I particularly like the Scouts, but with regard to similarity with NBMR I would think there are others as well.. Baluchistan Vol Rifles I think has a similar looking badge?

Sunil

[ANTJAR]

as you mentioned the old method of spelling Gurkha i thought you might like to see the following i received in 1985 from the 2nd [IMG]image[4]jpg[/IMG]

[gurkharifles]

Sunil - your right about the Baluchistan Volunteer Rifles badge - and at least they'd have been operating in the same Region as the 4GR. But the badge is a little smaller I think? Also I believe the Northern Bengal Mounted Rifles were in existence before the BVR ? So what's the connection between those two Regts ? Who copied who and why? Tim

[Khyber]

Tim, Ashok might have an answer or make an educated guess. He'll be envious too, I'm sure😛. Can check Shakespeare's Assam Rifles history to see if there's any mention in passing of any Scout unit among any Gurkha/Frontier units on the NE Frontier ...one never knows..
Sunil

[gurkharifles]

Hi Sunil - I got the badges from Ashok - it was part of a trade with the pre- mutiny badges I showed a few weeks ago.

[Lancer 17]

Hi Tim,

Great badges, thanks for sharing, though I must admit I know nothing of the Gurkha badges.

Regards

Phil.

[Piffer]

A terrific acquisition of some ultra rare badges-congratulations. Tom

[Gurkha]

Morning Tim,
Love the 4th Scouts, superb badge the discoloration on the crown, is it ground dug? I've not seen one for sale in 40 years.
Re the 3rd, I have to disagree with you. I think the museum has it right. There are not any gaps in the knowledge of badges worn, and it would be of the period when sufficient photographic evidence exists of the regiment.The mess orderlies would not have been considered worth photographing. its just not the quality as well. I remember having conversations with Sir John about this badge a few years ago. Still a nice addition tho'

Kind regards
Steve

[gurkharifles]

Hi Steve - I don't think its ground dug - the discoloration is more pronounced in the photo - the back of the badge is in excellent condition . As for the 3GR badge Ashok had a conversation with the John Chapple about them as well - he believes they were worn by the Regt as well - unfortunately a Field Marshall is always going to outrank a Capt! JC was always reluctant to attribute any badge unless there was photographic or documentary evidence. Hence there are quite a few "mystery" badges in the Gurkha Museum's books on the insignia. Tim

[cbuehler]

Those are a fabulous find. Must say I am quite envious!
CB