HLI TF CAP BADGE - SOUTH AFRICA SCROLL

[Alan O]

I have a number of Highland Light Infantry TF (1908-17) cap badges. One thing that has always puzzled me was the existance of the long erased scrolls. I have 4 versions which are shown here. All look genuine to me. 2 have the South Africa 1900.2 scroll while the other 2 have had the lettering erased. Interestingly one has a voided crown, the elephnts truck is cut out and there might well be the scar of a slider of all things on the back.

I have never seen a genuine one with a blank scroll (ie not erased in some form) but a well known ebay crook sells them with a blank scroll and a noticeably thick border line. I show an example as a warning.

Now Gaylor has a story about only the 6th Bn wearing the SA title and the 5th,7th and 8th having the blank ones. Is this another one of his urban myths or is it substantiated anywhere? It seems odd to me that this was the case if the scrolls were being erased for 3 bns but only kept by one?

[Alan O]

The 2 erased ones do seem to suggest that the erasing was done after production rather than a change to the die. Does anyone else have any others to show?

[Alan O]

The ebay fake.

[Tinto]

Hi Alan,

Here are mine for comparison. The first, like yours, has a voided crown and trunk and the whole badge is markedly convex/concave.

Cheers, Tinto

[Alan O]

Is the third one erased or made with a blank scroll die?

[Tinto]

Hi Alan,

The third one has very faint vestiges of the lettering on the front but there is no sign of lettering on the rear.

Cheers, Tinto

[Alan O]

Ta. I thought so. Of mine one has been very well erased so there is only a hint of the title whereas the other one is not such a good effort. It just confirms the 'erased rather than made blank' trend.

I am having difficult finding examples of what the pre1908 bns wore. The post 1908 6th Bn seem to have worn the South Africa 1900-02 but with a lower VB scroll. Now this must have been after 1904-5 as this was when the battlehonour was first granted. As such in 1908 they could have removed the lower VB scroll without too much difficulty.

The question is what were they wearing before 1905 and what were the other Bns wearing?

Did the 5th, 7th and 8th erase the South Africa honour - and why adulter another Bn's badge. Or was this a practice by later TF who had not been to SAfrica or what? As a compete ringer the last one I found came with a 6th bn s/title suggesting it belonged to a 6th Bn man!

[Tinto]

Hi Alan,

Perhaps an email to the Secretary of the RSF/HLI Museum in Sauchiehall Street, Glasgow, may provide answers. The Museum has a good collection of photographs too.

Cheers, Tinto

[wardog]

Old thread I know but I'm still confused re blank long scroll HLI badges. Were some manufactured blank or are the only ones thought good erased South Africa scroll badges? Regards, Paul.

[Alan O]

Paul

Never seen a blank scroll one that has not had the lettering erased on the die that I would buy.

Alan

[CAM]

All the ones I have seen seem to be 'erased' scrolls.

Chris

[dubaiguy]

Perhaps an interesting variant of the fatter shaped star? When whatever was on the scroll was erased with extemporised seeding - as opposed to grinding off the lettering as on the SA honours scroll badge - it appears the seeding has also been extended to the smooth area behind the intertwined HLI motif in the centre of the badge. Getting a bit carried away maybe?

I've had no reason to think it is a fake - lugs look good - but the two or three I have come across whilst collecting HLI badges all seem to be in an unused, fairly pristine condition. Never any wear or attempt to falsely age them. Which is a tad strange without being too much of a worry.

Any thoughts?

Mark

[Luke H]

Wonky uneven jewels in the crown’s band. Pock mark rather than true seeding as seen on the Hants and a couple other fakes.

A fake methinks.

[dubaiguy]

Could be Luke. Certainly all new looking. The wonky Jewels ( I hadn't noticed) definitely isn't a good sign.

I get the true seeding versus crude pock marks bit, but that hadn't put me off as I hadn't expected to see good seeding on a badge where I thought the purpose was just to deface the existing lettering. Though I admit vastly cruder to the other blanked scroll HLI badges I have.
I'm afraid I don't know the Hampshire badge to make a comparison, but I'm assuming it must be very similar to the pockmarks on the HLI.

Hmmm you've certainly raised some more doubt.

Not worth much I know but Bosley has sold them as genuine (that's it then game over!).


Mark

[Alan O]

It has the goggle eyed elephant see on many fake HLI badges.