RMA Cap (or collar) badge £103 - British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum

Ray6930 · #1 04-02-12, 05:01 PM

Did anyone else see (or perhaps bid on) the RMA badge in attached pic which sold on Ebay recently for £103?
It is the only one I've seen with E/W lugs. I had heard of this and was told that the collar badges had that orientation of lugs.
If it is genuine and so seldom seen I wonder if in fact that was the way the lugs were on the cap badge and the "cap badges" we normally see with N/S lugs are in fact collars. It would seem logical perhaps because there should be 2 collar badges for every one cap badge.
Ray

cossack · #2 04-02-12, 07:23 PM

Hi Ray,
I did see it but did not bid due to the price rising rapidly. I thought it unusual with the E/W lugs but in regard to the collars I have a pic of my Great-Uncle in his RMA uniform & the collars are clearly much smaller than the cap badges.
Regards....Andy

Ray6930 · #3 05-02-12, 05:10 PM

Andy
Any chance you could post that pic - or even email it to me, as I have been having ongoing discussions with other RM collectors about there being a smaller RMA collar.
As a matter of interest, there is a rumour that the secretary at the RM Museum bought that one one EBay
Ray

cossack · #4 05-02-12, 07:58 PM

Hi Ray,
No problem to send you the pic, I think I have your e-mail already but I need to scan the pic onto this laptop so bear with me.
I have seen pictures with the collars that are the same size as the cap badge but looking at the E/W alignment of those lugs also made me think of those 'ranked' cap badges which have the same set up which if you lopped the rank stripe off the bottom you would have one of those cap badges!
In regard to my Great-Uncle's pic, you can see that the bomb part of his collars are smaller than his buttons.

Regards....Andy

Ray6930 · #5 09-02-12, 08:29 AM

I had a feeling I'd handled a E/W lugged badge and so stripped my display cases down and found the badge in the attached picture

I have pictured the bottom rim inside and out as best I can, in order to show that there is no sign whatsoever that stripes have been removed.

If this (and the one sold on Ebay) are genuine cap (or collar) badges then I guess I struck lucky for once in my collecting life. If they are both imaginative fakes then - ah well, c'est la guerre.

Yours Aye
Ray

Artynut · #6 09-02-12, 05:24 PM

OK guys, Can anyone state the correct sixes for the caps and collars and while you're at it tell me if any or all of these should stay or go? From largest to smallest, the following sizes apply to mine. Dia. of ball 22.25mm, 21.55mm and 20.40mm. width across flames 31.66mm, 27.52mm and 26.50mm. Also note that the largest has one lug and one spike and the smallest has flat lugs.I propped the large badge up a bit to show the spike, it's as long as the lug. Regards, David J.

Ray6930 · #7 10-02-12, 08:59 AM

Hi David
Have put all mine back into the display cases - and do not have callipers to be as accurate as you. I have 5 in total in my cases and all bar one look the same size. The 'odd' looking one seems 'blunted' at the edges of the flame like in one of your lictures.
Will do my best at measuring the dimensions with an adjustable spanner or something and get back to you as soon as I can
Ray

Artynut · #8 12-02-12, 02:17 AM

Thank you Ray, I guess that thread got passed over before any others could comment on it but would still like to know about the "flat" lugs and the one with the "spike" and the question as to whether they are 'good' or 'bad' . Regards, DJ.

Ray6930 · #9 13-02-12, 08:52 AM

Paddy / John et al
Can anyone contribute to DJ's question on variation in size of the RMA Cap/Collar grenade - and even more intriguing to me, the one with a spike rather than a lug.
Ray

stonehouse boy · #10 13-02-12, 03:34 PM

Hi Ray
I've been following this thread but I can't help all this is new to me.
Never seen a RMA collar I always thought it was the same as the cap-badge.

Ray6930 · #11 13-02-12, 05:49 PM

Evening John
That was what I thought - the cap and collar badges were identical - and all would have had North to South lugs.
Then one with E-W lugs sold on Ebay, I found one like that in my collection - and Artynut posted pictures of his, with one of those having E/W lugs.
Three on show with E/W lugs and the rumour that the RM Museum went to £103 for the Ebay one - makes one think.
As per my original post, could the cap badge (or less likely the collar) perhaps have actually been E/W lugs?

Artynut had a query as to the correct size of the grenade and flame for the cap and/or collar badge, his examples vary in size slightly. Do you have any you can measure for him?

Finally, Coasack says he has a picture of his Great Uncle where the collar badge is smaller than the cap badge. Hopefully he is going to email a scan of that to me. If he does I'll post it into this thread unless he does that before I get it

Ray

cossack · #12 13-02-12, 06:22 PM

Hi Ray,
I have looked at the picture again (attached) & lightened it a bit & now the collars do look the same size as the cap badges. I would therefore concur with what you are saying in that the ones with the E/W lugs are cap badges & the N/S lugs are the collars. Sorry for the error in what I was thinking!
Also, I would prefer if people don't copy the pic without asking as it is a family photo!

Thanks...Andy

Ray6930 · #13 13-02-12, 07:10 PM

Andy
Thanks for posting it
I'll not copy it
Do you know when it was taken by any chance?
Ray

cossack · #14 13-02-12, 07:35 PM

Ray, I dont mind you copying it if its just for your personal files, unfortunately I saw a family pic appear twice on other websites which make me cautious now!
I can't remember if there is a date on the back of the pic but assume it is wartime - he was killed in November 1917.

Andy

Paddy · #15 15-02-12, 12:25 PM

Ray et al

I'm also one of those who thought that the collars and cap badges were one and the same. There is a RMA mannequin in the RM Museum which has cap and collars and they are all the same size, no way of telling what arrangement the lugs are though. If the collars are NS and the cap badges EW then it could explain why there are more NS badges but I would still expect to see more EW than these few, perhaps just a manufacturer's variation or an early/late version. I have attached a few pics of RMA cap and collar badges being worn (apologies for small size but they show what you need to see), the first 3 have cap and collars of the same size and the 4th one has collars of a different pattern but I believe these could be bullion. I have a picture which I obtained from the RM Museum and it shows 2 different versions of the RMA cap badge, there is a slight variation in the sizes and one of them is gilt for SNCO and the other gm for ORs, I believe the gilt version is the smaller of the 2 but unfortunately I do not have the sizes.

Paddy