RMA / Portsmouth Band cap badge

[Ray6930]

Dear All
Following on from the recent thread, and John's comments about the badge with the QC mounted having never been issued, I dug up the old material which had led me to believe it has been issued for a trip or something.
Attached is a pic sent to me by an experienced collector whom I have mentioned before.
This is his description of the badges:
From the top Royal Yacht, Prince Albert 1904-1912.
A very, very rare and scarce badge indeed. No insert to the middle ( see some old pictures of the Royal Yacht)
Bellow, King Edward crown 1912-1937. Nice old badge.
Next, a very rare item which really doesn't exist. Issued on board H.M.S.Vanguard 1952 at the death of King George VI was issued to the band for his funeral. It was immediately withdrawn by the Drum Major Doug Bowden and they were reissued with the old badge back again. Reason, you cannot put another Sovereign's Crown over another sovereigns monogram. I acquired this one from Doug Bowden on his retirement from the corps. The last one is from 1953 - 1970 (metal) Current badge but not issued any more because now they are Anodised (form of plastic) not displayed because there is no significant difference from the metal one. Also note the different metals used. Prior to 1952 they were Gilding Metal, after that some sort of mixture of brass and a base metal.

I have that QC version but it is sealed away in a glass case (my first effort with a case and sealed the glass in with framing - so virtually impossible to get at the badge for decent pictures unless I wreck the frame)

The one thing which is highly noticeable about the QC one was the finer quality of the metal/gilding - and I now see that spoken of in my friend's text. Is yours a superior quality to the KC one Paddy?

Of note is his stating that it was issued - and then withdrawn by a Drum Major who later gave him the badge for his collection.
This account is similar to John's comment - save only for the fact that it claims here that it was issued, used and then withdrawn - rather than ordered, recieved but never issued.

Finally - has anyone ever seen the blank one at the top of the picture? Now that is one to covet for a collection!

Yours Aye
Ray

[stonehouse boy]

Hi Ray
I just quoted from his article in which he states, Luckily no badges were issued, although we do have an example of this error in the Museum.
Major.A.Donald RM
Corps Historian, as he was then.
I've seen several badges with the Queens Crown above the cypher for sale over the years each dealer putting a different price on what he thinks its worth.
And yes I know of another blank badge in a collection.

John

[Ray6930]

Evening John
So, it would appear that a Major and a Drum Major are saying slightly different things but generally the comment is accurate that this is a badge that never was/should have been.
I have photographed mine two variations through the glass as best I can to show the difference in quality/appearance. (attached)
Again, will hopefully hear from Paddy as to whether his 2 variations show the same difference.
Ray

[Ray6930]

Further to my last, I have two spares of the main part of the badge (no cyphers above) and, the previous thread has caused me to study them more closely.
There are subtle differences
Pic 1:- On the front the only real noticeable difference is the colouring/tarnishing of the 'silver' attachments
The most modern ones I have seen seem annodised/staybright or something because they do not seem to tarnish or lose their shine.
The left hand one seems slightly 'rough' almost as if a bit corroded or tarnished, The one on the right is dark - like silver gets tarnished when not cleaned.
Pic 2:- On the rear the difference is in the crispness of the striations in the laurel and grenade flames - I'm afraid I inadvertantly swapped them round, so the one with the less defined/softer lines is the one which is not showing darker tarnishing on the front.

Opinion on these two would be welcome.
Ray

[Paddy]

Ray

I'm away from home until Thursday but when I get home I'll take some better pictures to see if I can show the finish a bit better

Paddy

[Paddy]

Ray

I've taken a few more pics of the grenades I showed in the earlier post, the colours aren't a perfect representation of the true colour but they are as close as I can get with my camera (skill level). The first 4 pics are of the QC version. The badge is a much superior quality than the ones issued today and it appears to be more of a die cast badge. The coating is gilt and some of the highlights are burnished, it's make-up and colouring are similar to officer quality army cap badges manufactured before the new style metals. The cypher on the grenade does not tarnish so I would guess that it is rhodium coated which is what they have been doing with the band's cyphers for years (apart from the POW feathers which are still issued as dead silver plated & burnished). Looking at your picture of your QC grenade behind glass I would say that mine and yours are very very similar and I would guess that the back of yours is probably the same as mine.

The next 4 pictures are of the KC grenade I got from stores a few years ago. The quality is not as good as the QC grenade and there is a lot more detail to the reverse. To best describe the metals/finish used I will quote straight from JSP 768 - "Gilding metal, bright gilt plated finish. Mount
Nickel silver, bright Rhodium plated finish. Bright gilt shade to conform to pattern No 23964". Again, my KC badge looks very similar to yours exceptmy crown is separate from the cypher although I do have one where the crownand cypher are attached and again it is of very similar construction to yours.

The 3rd badge I've shown (have to do a 2nd post for these) is what I believe to be the oldest of the 3. It is a gilded badge with burnished highlights and the crown & cypher on the front are silver and do tarnish.

Paddy

[Paddy]

Pictures of 3rd badge