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  #1  
Old 07-05-18, 10:13 AM
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Default Help badging a jacket

Morning All,

I've just picked up this jacket and would like to badge it up in a way a relative would have worn it but don't know what I need. He was a Stoker just before WW1.

I know this jacket is completely the wrong era but was thinking if I did it with modern badges correct to the jacket they would be easier and cheaper to source whilst still being a nod to him.

According to his record he was a stoker class 2, class 1 and leading stoker. Going off the dates I'm guessing leading stoker is the highest rank so that's the badge I'm want to use and I'm also going to put 2 good conduct badges on to match his record.

I can see on this jacket where the tombstone badge goes but there also seems to have been a single shoulder title removed from the opposite sleeve. Is that correct (as in just one needed)?

Do I need any other badges and should they be red thread or gold?

Thanks for the help,

Michael
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  #2  
Old 07-05-18, 11:32 AM
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Default Help badging a jacket

Hi Michael

I guess your relative was a Royal Navy regular? I wouldn't bother about trying to find a shoulder flash as none of those were worn before WW1. Even today the only people who wear shoulder flashes are Royal Navy Commandos and those engaged in Bomb Disposal. And neither of those existed at that time.

The only other ratings I can think of that used to wear shoulder flashes were the crew on the Royal Yacht (until 1997) and members of the Royal Naval Reserve (until 2007). Neither of those wore shoulder flashes on their uniforms prior to the First World War.

You say you want to make this the jacket of a Leading Stoker? Well in that case the first thing you will want is his badge of rating. For a Leading Rate this is a foul anchor and it should be worn directly above his Good Conduct badges. This should be worn on the left arm.

The trade badge should be worn on the right arm. The Stokers badge was a three-bladed ships propeller. The level of qualification was marked by different arrangements of stars and crowns. These changed at different times. For instance, between 1890 and 1914, when your relative was serving, Leading Stokers just wore the three-bladed propeller without any stars, but between 1942 and 1947 they wore it with a star above it.

There is no such thing as a Stoker today and hasn't been for years. Ratings in the Marine Engineering branch continued to use the propeller as their trade badge for many years but it was replaced about 15 years ago with a new design. So there isn't actually a modern Leading Stoker badge that you could put on to the jacket. However, the old ships propeller badges are still easy to pick up.

I have a feeling that your uniform was worn by a member of the RNR prior to 2007 so it might be OK to badge it with the three-bladed propeller badge.

You asked whether red or gold badges should be used. At the time your relative was serving either would be acceptable - gold badges on the best uniform and red on the second best or working uniform. Red badges ceased to be issued in 1994 (although they were allowed to be worn until 1996). In 2004 gold wire badges began to be replaced by gold rayon badges. You would probably do best to use gold wire.

Trying to badge a uniform from one period as it would have been in another period is actually quite a difficult thing to do! Badges and uniforms have changed so much over the years.

I will sort out some illustrations of the badges for you and post them later.

Pete
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  #3  
Old 07-05-18, 11:42 AM
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Hi Pete,

Thank you very much for your extremely comprehensive reply, it will help me no end as (in case you hadn't worked it out) I know pretty much nothing about naval badges.

The guy I got the jacket from said it was a 1970's issue one but I have no idea if that's true. The label says jumper, seamans, class 2 if that helps any.

If you do have any photos of what I'm looking for that would be a great help. I thought I was going for the easy route using modern badges, trust me to do the opposite.

Thanks again for the help.

Michael
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  #4  
Old 07-05-18, 02:57 PM
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Check this website out:-

http://www.godfreydykes.info/ROYAL_N..._CENTURIES.htm

regards
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  #5  
Old 07-05-18, 03:18 PM
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Thanks Simon,

That's a lot of variations on a theme on there, it seems really complicated to me.

Michael
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  #6  
Old 07-05-18, 07:09 PM
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Default Help Badging a jacket

Hi Michael

I have sorted out a few illustrations to help you find the badges you need.

If, as you say, the uniform you have was made in the 1970s then either gold wire or red thread badges will be acceptable. However, remember that all the badges must be in red or gold - you can't mix them.

Firstly there is an image of the Leading Rate badge. Make sure you get one in gold wire and not in the modern gold rayon.

Secondly there is a modern image showing how the badge of rating should be worn with the Good Conduct badges. Your man only had two Good Conduct badges whereas this rating has three, but otherwise there would be no difference.

Thirdly there is the stokers trade badge - the three-bladed ships propeller. This image has the star above but I think that in the 1970's a Leading Stoker would just have worn the propeller without the star.

All of these badges - the badge of rating, the Good Conduct badges, and the three-bladed ships propeller should be fairly easily available in gold wire or red thread. Try the shop of one of our forum members, RBJ Militaria. He is on the internet and if you e-mail him he should be able to provide you with everything you need. However, I think he has just gone on holiday for two weeks but you can leave your request with him and he'll contact you when he gets back.

Pete
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Leading Rate badge.jpg (19.2 KB, 11 views)
File Type: jpg Leading rate and Good Conduct.jpg (7.8 KB, 17 views)
File Type: jpg Stokers badge.jpg (30.9 KB, 12 views)
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  #7  
Old 07-05-18, 07:24 PM
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Hi Pete,

Thank you so much for your help doing this, I really appreciate it, those photos are a huge help.

I have bought a few bits from BJ in the past (following a recommendation on the forum I think), he's always been very helpful so I'll drop him an email.

Thanks again,

Michael
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  #8  
Old 07-05-18, 07:35 PM
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Default Service stripes spare

Michael

This is surplus to my requirements, measures 5 3/8 inches across and feels like metal thread, rather than nylon or similar. If the experts think it suitable for you Iím happy to let you have it gratis - PM your address if you want it.

All the best

Graham
(Former Crab but my late dad was Royal and Merchant Navy)
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File Type: jpg 07May2018a 004b.jpg (54.8 KB, 1 views)
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  #9  
Old 07-05-18, 07:46 PM
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Hi Graham,

That is extremely generous of you, thank you very much. I'll send you a pm.

Michael
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