Anodised Aluminium badges November 1951 list

[KLR]

Chris, here is the concrete example I promised you. This is a dated sealed pattern card for the Liverpool Scottish (Cameron) in PB’s collection. I’m grateful to Peter for allowing me to discuss this and I’m sure he will post a photograph of it.
The first mention of an AA badge for this unit appears in the 1959 CCN catalogued as CB 3333. It also appears in the 1963 CCN but in neither case is there a price attached.
The card is dated 8/1/1965 (with ratification on 21/1/1965). But a study of the handwritring shows that it has been altered. The CB number 3333 has been crossed out and replaced by 9933. The pattern number remains as 19397. Furthermore the unit details below are given as ‘Badge, Tam O’ Shanter / Liverpool Scottish / Anodised aluminium (silver)’. But again, a different hand has crossed out Tam O’ Shanter in the first line, added’ V ( ) Coy’ either side of Liverpool Scottish in the second line and inserted a new line reading ‘1st Battalion, 51st Highland Volunteers’. Below the last line the word Bonnet has been added, along with a description of the badge.
Why ? Well it turns out (and I have this on very good authority from a former officer of the Bn) that the Bn didn’t like the AA badge and fortunately had sufficient supplies of the WM badge to keep them going. In fact the Bn was disbanded 16 months later (April 1967) and thus never had to suffer the AA badge. The successor unit, the 51st Highland Volunteers now wore the “crucified moose” of the new Highland Brigade and the stocks of the Lpl Sc AA badge were passed to the cadet component (who didn’t really like it either !).

So, the badge was catalogued as ‘intended’ in 1959.
It was sealed for the unit in 1965.
It was never in fact worn by the unit that was meant to have it.
It was resealed for another unit in 1967.

[Alan O]

Julian,

Many thanks for another excellent piece of documented research.

If I understand things properly this means that the badge was not actually made in a/a until 1965 despite the earlier authority allowing it to be made in a/a if required?

Alan

[KLR]

well, that's how it seems to me. I'd be interested to see what 54Bty thinks.
Actually, I remember Peter sent me a copy, here it is, I don't think he will mind:

[54Bty]

Not much I can say. The CB number on the card is that which was allocated to the Liverpool Scottish badge in the 1951 LoC, it is also alongside the WM CB number (3179 Liverpool Scottish (Camerons)) in the 1953 CCN and again in the 1963 CCN with the WM version marked as obsolete. As both badges should have been available in 1953 and 1963 it is strange that the pattern card is dated 1965. Unless this is a new card for the AA badge, and the card for the WM version was marked 'to guide for the AA badge'.

The NSN (CB 8455-99-973-9933) is listed in the 1973 CCN again for the Liverpool Scottish, in the COSA for 1980 ( I am missing the 1978 version) it is listed as Liverpool Scottish, "V" Company. 1st Battalion, 51st Highland Volunteers.

[Alan O]

I think the delay is clearly down to 'existing stocks are to be used up' which you quoted in your first post. Presumably the QM and the Supply chain had large stocks of wm ones to call on for some time after the a/a was authorised. Bearing in mind the soldiers propensity to hang on to 'old' designs for as long as possible (even after they have gone out of issue) so that they look like old sweats then this does not surprise me.

The ADC has authorised all these badges to be made (even for the cavalry regts that disbanded in 1948) and produced CB numbers but no one has needed to actually place a contract for any to be made until years later.

Alan

[54Bty]

Another 'needle in the haystack'; the pattern card for the Yorkshire Brigade O/R's which was later changed to Yorkshire Volunteers O/R's has "Anodised Aluminium Mark II". Sealed on the 18th December 1958 as pattern 17977, CB 8086 and later NSN CB 8455-99-974-1093, went to the London Badge and Button Company 9-11-90 and Toye Kenning & Spencer Ltd 24-10-91.

[ukbrits]

Hi all,
Thanks 54Bty for the interesting lists on anodised badges, it's got me thinking about the early "large" Kings Regiment anodised cap badge that 8th Foot (P.B) kindly placed on the forum for us all to see.
I noticed on your list that the Kings Regiment was allocated an early badge in the 50's if existing stocks had been depleted, I'm tempting fate here with the K.L.R collectors and wondering if this large version of the badge was made for but never worn by the Regiment.
I have noticed there is absolutely no mention of an early A/A badge being made for the Liverpool U.O.T.C in anodised aluminium perhaps they were wearing cloth badges at the time?.
Possibly at a later date the U.O.T.C used up the old stock of Kings Regiment badges which were produced for but never used by the Regiment?
Your opinions will be appreciated.
Colin

[Mike H]

If you look at the script in K&K ,it says also in anodised.This refers to the large badge,i dont know when the book was written.I asked the question in a different thread as i was led to believe that the large badge was worn by the UOTC only,they then switched to the smaller beret version.

[Alan O]

Originally Posted by 54Bty

Another 'needle in the haystack'; the pattern card for the Yorkshire Brigade O/R's which was later changed to Yorkshire Volunteers O/R's has "Anodised Aluminium Mark II". Sealed on the 18th December 1958 as pattern 17977, CB 8086 and later NSN CB 8455-99-974-1093, went to the London Badge and Button Company 9-11-90 and Toye Kenning & Spencer Ltd 24-10-91.

Do you have the badge attached to the card?

Alan

[Mike H]

I wonder if the Mk II pattern is the non voided badge,hence the rareness of the the voided under the rose version.

[54Bty]

Yes I do have the badge and it is solid, no void.

[Alan O]

Many thanks. Do we presume that voided version was the Mk 1 badge then?
In that case it would be fair to say that the voided ones were Yorks Bde but rather incorrect to assert that the solid version was only Yorks Volunteers and no mention the fact that the Yorks Bde wore them as well.

Alan

[54Bty]

The badge on the pattern card is solid, and the pattern card is marked "Yorkshire Brigade O/R's" which has later been changed to "Yorkshire Volunteers O/R's".

Therefore the solid badge was available for both the Brigade and the Volunteers.

[bess55]

Gents, been reading the above, fascinating research material, many thanks. My Father was RAF in the 50's in the Far East. He would say that for a short time they wore a mixture of kings and queens crown, both brass and anodised. Not so sure about the kings crown anodised myself, but he seems certain. I'm still not convinced, if anyone can shed any light, would solve a long standing argument!

Secondly, I have Yorkshire Brigade anodised (non voided under the rose) which is all gold and another all gold with the crown and scroll painted black. Any suggestion guys? I'm sure I saw a black painted one similar on ebay a while ago.

[Alan O]

Many thanks for confirming that about the bde/vols being the same sealed pattern.

Bess - there has been a thread about the black ones - they appear to be makers errors which have been wrongly coloured and then discarded before finishing. The paint was there to mask the badge before another colour was applied.

Alan