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  #31  
Old 30-03-12, 06:20 AM
Jumbo Jumbo is offline
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Sorry Peter, have'nt progressed that far yet
Peter
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  #32  
Old 14-05-12, 10:29 PM
Peter J
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Default ANORAK ALERT!!! - you have been warned!

I thought this might be of interest to anyone who has been following this thread... unmarked Woodward badges.

It is my opinion that the badge pictured on the right (without the maker's mark) is an F. E. Woodward, badge:

Woods 001.jpg

After close study of the Woodward badges in my collection, I found that every one of their sliders measures:

Length = 38.5mm or 39mm
Width at bend = 5mm or 5.5mm
Width 3mm from bottom = 4mm

The dimensions of slider of the right-hand badge above, falls precisely within these parameters. Here it is (again on the right) slider-to-slider with a Woodward-made Army Cyclists Corps example:

Woods 2 003.jpg

Below, I have shown the badge in question, placed next to a Woodward-marked 25th London Cyclists, which I think clearly demonstrates the close similarity of the two strikes:

Woods 003.jpg

Woods 006.jpgWoods 2 007.jpg

Woods 2 006.jpgWoods 009.jpg

Lastly, the unmarked badge has a very deep crimp. To illustrate that this characteristic occasionally features on marked badges, here is the unmarked badge shown next to a maker-marked 19th County of London, example:

Woods 012.jpg

My attention was first drawn to the possibility of unmarked Woodward badges, after seeing a Royal Fusiliers badge in an album of forum friend. It too has an unmarked slider, and bears a remarkable similarity to its Woodward-marked counterpart.

If anyone has examples that they think may be unmarked Woodward badges, please feel free to add them to this thread.

I am sure you will now all sleep more soundly this evening after reading this post .

Regards to all,

Peter

Last edited by Peter J; 14-05-12 at 11:05 PM. Reason: Typo... yet again!!!!!!!!!!!
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  #33  
Old 14-05-12, 10:49 PM
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Fatherofthree Fatherofthree is offline
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Hi Peter.

Permission to wake up now.

1. What size anorak would you like for your birthday?

2. When I'm sufficiently out of my slider induced stupor, I'll have a look.

3. All very interesting.

ZZzzzzzz

Best wishes mate.

Regards
Brian
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  #34  
Old 14-05-12, 11:06 PM
Peter J
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatherofthree View Post
Hi Peter.

Permission to wake up now.

1. What size anorak would you like for your birthday?

2. When I'm sufficiently out of my slider induced stupor, I'll have a look.

3. All very interesting.

ZZzzzzzz

Best wishes mate.

Regards
Brian
The post does come with a 'Danger of Coma' notice... you were warned .
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  #35  
Old 15-05-12, 05:52 AM
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Keith Blakeman Keith Blakeman is offline
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I'll be OK until the Leicestershire Yeomanry are mentioned.
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  #36  
Old 18-05-12, 12:56 AM
Peter J
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Default Unmarked Woodward

For anyone not quite in a catatonic stupor just yet, here is another badge (pictured right) which is a very strong contender:

Unmarked Woodward 016.jpgUnmarked Woodward 005.jpg
Unmarked Woodward 014.jpgUnmarked Woodward 007.jpg
Unmarked Woodward 024.jpgUnmarked Woodward 010.jpg
Unmarked Woodward 013.jpgUnmarked Woodward 012.jpg

Peter.

http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/for...p?albumid=1183

Last edited by Peter J; 18-05-12 at 01:21 AM.
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  #37  
Old 18-05-12, 10:39 PM
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Sonofacqms Sonofacqms is offline
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Cool Named sliders

Forum members, this may seem like a rant and I want you to remember that I am an old collector who has reached pensionable age, but this thread, with dimensions of sliders marked and unmarked, crimps deep and otherwise point to me that these badges are suspect.

I may be wrong, but badges made pre 1940's rarely had named sliders, having looked at some of the excellent photographs offered, I am more than ever convinced that OR's WWI cap badges with named sliders and plaques, with the exception of Lambourne and the RND are suspect, as for the crimps, what purpose do they serve?

The crimps are usually well below the point of the bend, if they were on the bend I would see the reason to help in the production, allowing the brass to bend without snapping, but often these I am sure are just yet another embellishment to give a restrike credibility.

I am sure members may well be able to put me right on these points, but from where I am sitting, things do not add up.

Why would companies involved in the production of badges at a time of National crisis bother to put the name of the company on the slider, they surely were not paid anymore?

The reason the RND had the plaques, was that the Navy had extremely high Standards, it was "Winston's Little Army" after all and they were a prestigious force in 1914. They even had two books printed about them showing the officers with captions. How many other unts had this?

Well done for showing the makers marks, but I am not convinced every things correct.

Rob
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  #38  
Old 18-05-12, 11:02 PM
Peter J
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonofacqms View Post
Forum members, this may seem like a rant and I want you to remember that I am an old collector who has reached pensionable age, but this thread, with dimensions of sliders marked and unmarked, crimps deep and otherwise point to me that these badges are suspect.

I may be wrong, but badges made pre 1940's rarely had named sliders, having looked at some of the excellent photographs offered, I am more than ever convinced that OR's WWI cap badges with named sliders and plaques, with the exception of Lambourne and the RND are suspect, as for the crimps, what purpose do they serve?

The crimps are usually well below the point of the bend, if they were on the bend I would see the reason to help in the production, allowing the brass to bend without snapping, but often these I am sure are just yet another embellishment to give a restrike credibility.

I am sure members may well be able to put me right on these points, but from where I am sitting, things do not add up.

Why would companies involved in the production of badges at a time of National crisis bother to put the name of the company on the slider, they surely were not paid anymore?

The reason the RND had the plaques, was that the Navy had extremely high Standards, it was "Winston's Little Army" after all and they were a prestigious force in 1914. They even had two books printed about them showing the officers with captions. How many other unts had this?

Well done for showing the makers marks, but I am not convinced every things correct.

Rob

This doesn't seem like a rant, Rob. A perfectly reasonable post which expresses your considered opinion rather succinctly.

Good on you, mate; this is what a froum should be all about.

Peter.
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  #39  
Old 26-09-12, 07:26 PM
Peter J
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Default HOLD TIGHT... more anorakalia

ASC Woodward 002.jpgASC Woodward 004.jpg

Thought this might be worth adding to the thread...

ASC Woodward 007.jpgASC Woodward 005.jpg

There is a blob of braze directly over the area where the charactersitic Woodward crimp would normally be. Could this be purely accidental, or (given the often very deep recess) could this have been a means of strengthening this particular section?

Next, this badge has a very nice used quality to it; shaped/cupped, with the points of the star curled round considerably...

ASC Woodward 009.jpgASC Woodward 017.jpg

Lastly (and possibly most anorakishly) the MM itself is orientated so that it reads from the bottom of the slider upwards...

ASC Woodward 018.jpg
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  #40  
Old 26-09-12, 09:41 PM
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fougasse1940 fougasse1940 is offline
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Possibly just a 'monday morning' variation, i.e. sloppily made with that blob. I have an identical Woodward ASC badge which also reads from the bottom of the slider upwards. There once was a badge shown on the forum with a makers mark on the underside of the slider, suggesting sliders were maker marked before fitting to the badge. Perhaps sliders were also maker stamped before being shaped? Perhaps they didn't care?
Mine was as new when bought which makes me wary of it being a restrike.

Rgds,

Thomas.
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  #41  
Old 26-09-12, 09:52 PM
Peter J
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fougasse1940 View Post
Possibly just a 'monday morning' variation, i.e. sloppily made with that blob. I have an identical Woodward ASC badge which also reads from the bottom of the slider upwards. There once was a badge shown on the forum with a makers mark on the underside of the slider, suggesting sliders were maker marked before fitting to the badge. Perhaps sliders were also maker stamped before being shaped? Perhaps they didn't care?
Mine was as new when bought which makes me wary of it being a restrike.

Rgds,

Thomas.
Hello Thomas,

Would love to have a look at your example, if possible.

Do you mean the badge with the MM on the underside was a Woodward badge?

As far as copies are concerned, to the best of my knowledge, the most obvious give-away with the MM is that the copies have a very rounded 'O' in 'WOODWARD', as opposed to the the more oval '0' with the genuine examples (afraid I do not have one to illustrate the point).

Cheers,

Peter
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  #42  
Old 26-09-12, 11:25 PM
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fougasse1940 fougasse1940 is offline
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Peter mine is the same as yours, both oval "O"s and maker mark on the outside of the slider, only the braze blob over the crimp is missing. Pic will follow tomorrow in daylight OK?
Don't remember which maker mark was on the underside of the slider, I'd suggest you try out the search function and see how good it is.

Rgds,

Thomas.
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  #43  
Old 26-09-12, 11:35 PM
Peter J
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fougasse1940 View Post
Peter mine is the same as yours, both oval "O"s and maker mark on the outside of the slider, only the braze blob over the crimp is missing. Pic will follow tomorrow in daylight OK?
Don't remember which maker mark was on the underside of the slider, I'd suggest you try out the search function and see how good it is.

Rgds,

Thomas.
Cheers Thomas. Look forward to the pics.

All the best,

Peter.
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  #44  
Old 27-09-12, 10:23 PM
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fougasse1940 fougasse1940 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter J View Post
Cheers Thomas. Look forward to the pics.

All the best,

Peter.
Here they are Peter. The obverse looks a bit grubbier in the pic than in reality.

Rgds,

Thomas.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg ASC Woodward obverse.jpg (88.2 KB, 23 views)
File Type: jpg AS Woodward reverse.jpg (71.2 KB, 44 views)
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  #45  
Old 29-09-12, 08:19 AM
Peter J
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fougasse1940 View Post
Here they are Peter. The obverse looks a bit grubbier in the pic than in reality.

Rgds,

Thomas.
Thanks for that, Thomas. Probably the cleanest example I've seen.

Cheers,

Peter.
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