SAS button question

[tarabelle]

Hey

Posted in special forces but havent had an answer yet

Does anyone know the time period this was worn ????

I'm helping to get the description right as its being sold so helps appreciated

T X

Not my item

[54Bty]

I do not have any information on any brass versions.
Both the white metal and silver anodised aluminium version were sealed in 1953 and officially introduced for wear in 1954.

Marc

[tarabelle]

Hi Mark

Thanks, I was talking to someone who thinks this was before the anodised ones were brought in so he thinks before 1950 he doesn't think they would have a brass button after the anodised ones he has seen and doesnt think it's one of the other countries sas because when they formed they could make their own buttons and would have used the anodised. He mention malaya and the Australians but said theyd make their own and use the same as the British

T X

[54Bty]

Unfortunately "Gaunt" made buttons for lots of Units and Countries.

Marc

[Toby Purcell]

Originally Posted by tarabelle

Hey

Posted in special forces but havent had an answer yet

Does anyone know the time period this was worn ????

I'm helping to get the description right as its being sold so helps appreciated

T X

Not my item

The SAS was officially formed in July 1941 and once a cap badge was authorised it would have been usual for buttons to be eventually approved too, albeit specifically just for officers’ service dress, which was still the approved best dress over and above battle dress (blue patrol jackets had been reintroduced around the same time (1941) as ‘optional’ for officers to wear in mess and other semi-formal occasions, but not on parade).

Battle dress did not feature regimental buttons and had utilitarian, dished plastic buttons instead, but service dress did feature metal buttons and it’s likely that some were made up, albeit in relatively small batches, as the demand would have been very limited during the war. Nevertheless, such buttons would almost certainly have been brass#. The post war association with white metal came about initially because of the SAS inclusion within a short lived, but overarching ‘Army Air Corps’ (first version - which incidentally included the Parachute Regiment) that wore a white metal badge, and secondly when after being reraised postwar it eventually became associated with the Artists Rifles of the Territorial Army, whose badge latterly, and buttons, had become white metal.

From that time onward and up to the present day all buttons have been in white metal. Gaunt are a very reputable firm as pointed out and closely associated with buttons as well as other insignia. Looking at the quality of the button it seems to me likely to be genuine and dating back to the earlier, WW2 existence of the SAS Regiment. There were quite a number of former Guards officers in the SAS and one can imagine that most of them would have procured regimental buttons that they probably added to their existing SD jackets including those in the Middle East made from Khaki Drill (KD) cloth**. However, I think that only a very few would have been made as a majority of officers would have saved expense by continuing to wear the buttons of their original regiments.

# initially officers appear to have worn the new regimental cap badge, but together with other insignia, such as collar badges and buttons of their original parent units. Paddy Mayne is a good example of this with his insignia of the Royal Ulster Rifles.

**needed only by those on leave at home, or temporarily employed in headquarters.

[Rob Miller]

I agree it looks like an Officers quality spun backed button, the "Gaunt London" back mark appears to date circa 1948 and onwards?

Rob

[Toby Purcell]

Originally Posted by Rob Miller

I agree it looks like an Officers quality spun backed button, the "Gaunt London" back mark appears to date circa 1948 and onwards?

Rob

That makes sense to me Rob. I think that the start point for the button (and probably collar badges too) would be whatever year the regiment took its place as a permanent fixture on the Army List.

[Rob Miller]

The two holes drilled in the reverse remind me of some buttons that had been electro plated, could it have been white metal originally?

Rob

[Toby Purcell]

Originally Posted by Rob Miller

The two holes drilled in the reverse remind me of some buttons that had been electro plated, could it have been white metal originally?

Rob

Possibly, now that you mention it I see some silvery traces around the edges of the circular join at the back. I can’t see what the point would be though.

[tarabelle]

Thank you

So it's okay to say it's an original WW2 SAS button and is a rare item ?

T

[Rob Miller]

The back mark rules out WW2 production in my opinion.

But it doesn't matter, the special forces collectors will throw money at it whatever.

Rob

[tarabelle]

All very interesting

I've been looking again and cant even see a pic with one of these buttons

Thanks

T

[Toby Purcell]

Originally Posted by tarabelle

Thank you

So it's okay to say it's an original WW2 SAS button and is a rare item ?

T

No I can’t be as specific as that and I’m not a button specialist. All I can say is that I think the quality is too good for it to be spurious and that too much shouldn’t be read into the white metal tradition that became the norm later on but might not have applied initially. Knowing the point (date) that the regiment was formally added to the Army List will be critical in working things out. Full insignia wasn’t generally issued at public expense until then.