T.A. Leicestershire Regt

[Sonofacqms]

Some long time ago I started a thread on a plastic Leicestershire Regt badge I have had for some while with the "Hindoostan" missing, this was put down I think at the time as vandalism.

However, I have seen another on our favourite online bidding site.

www.ebay.co.uk/itm/361167454706

Is this coincidental vandalism or were plastic Leicestershire Regt badges worn with the "Hindoostan" removed?

I would be interested to know.

Regards Rob

[Sonofacqms]

After 74 views of my post, I'm surprised I have had no comments, are there no Leicestershire Regt collectors out there.

Rob

[badjez]

Rob,

I've never seen one of these before. The most common damage to these Leics plastics is for the front outstretched paw to be broken off. In this case the paw remains and the much more secure scroll is missing, therefore, I would opt for the intentional vandalism of a TA man unhappy at being issued a plastic badge.

Given the opportunity I would add a badge like this to my collection.

Stephen.

[mooke07]

Hi Rob,

Sorry this Leicesters collector has had little time for his badges and the forum.

i have seen a number of BM Leicesters badges with the WM Hindoostan scroll removed. I have one or two myself. They may have been done to decieve or were solutions to a shortage of TF battalion badges but there is no way of telling really. Maybe by studying the brazing marks the TF and regular badges there could be a pattern.

However, as to missing Hindoostan scrolls on plastic badges I have not come across this. It may well be an unhappy TA soldier. Wish I could shed more light on it Rob.

Cheers Dean.

[Sonofacqms]

Thanks Stephen and Dean for your replies, from the looks of the badge on ebay it is the same as mine and the top scroll has been carefully removed, not IMO vandalism as such but purposefully executed.

An interesting item for anyone who collects badges to the forerunners of the Royal Anglians.

Rob

[Alan O]

As the TA stopped wearing the scrolless badge at the end of WW1 and the plastic were 20+ years later I would be surprised if it was supposed to be a TA badge.

['Ticker' Riley]

Hello Rob

Sadly, like Dean, I haven’t been able to contribute to the Forum for a while now, and have only recently begun to make brief visits again after another long absence.

Nonetheless, in answer to your question, my understanding was that because the Territorial Force were granted the right to wear badges showing the honours of their parent regiments in September 1917 (see a posting I made about this here), that after this date they wore the exact same badges as the regulars; at least were the Leicesters are concerned.

In off-Forum correspondence, Julian (KLR) has kindly shared information he has about certain TF badges being made obsolete later that same year, i.e. 1917, and his view that the granting of the right to have honours on the badges, and the subsequent obsolescence of those without, was all to do with the War Office taking over badge supply from the Territorial Associations and wanting to reduce the number of variant badges being produced.

In any event, although any change within the Leicesters’ TF battalions from badges without top scrolls to those with the “Hindoostan” honour like the regulars would have had a transitional period, by the time of the Second World War all members of the Leicestershire TA should have been wearing the same badges as their comrades in the regular battalions.

I personally, therefore, can see no obvious reason why a plastic Leicesters’ badge should not have its top scroll, and so in this case am of the opinion that it would never have been worn like this. Basically why would someone change their band new badge to try and make it resemble a badge that had become officially obsolete more than twenty years previous!?

Perhaps the “Hindoostan” honour did break off, or partially come away, and then someone purposefully removed the traces of this? Why you would want to do this I don’t know, but, like I say, I cannot see any reason myself for a badge like this not having its top scroll and being worn without it.

As to the Dean’s point about bi-metal Leicestershire Regiment badges where their top scrolls have been removed, and whether some examples of these are genuine TF badges or not, I am of the opinion that some could be, but that others have more than likely been deliberately altered by the taking off of the “Hindoostan” honour.

My own feeling is that when the TF badges were first introduced in 1908, it is likely that regulars’ badges were used and that the top scrolls of these removed, probably by the makers. Later badges, however, I believe, would have been produced from dies which were true to the design of the badge and so did not include a top scroll.

As to whether old sweats who transferred from the regulars to the TF then altered their old badge to show this change, I am still undecided on this. I have seen a number of badges, often with loops (lugs) rather than vertical shanks (sliders), that could fall into this category.

Unfortunately, I am not knowledgeable enough about any regulations that might have governed this. Such as would it have been a requirement of an old soldier upon joining the TF to physically alter his badge, or would he, in fact, have been allowed to have worn his badge with the “Hindoostan” honour because he had served as a regular and therefore was entitled to show this? Perhaps someone out there does know more about this?

Best regards

Martin