8th Armoured Bde patches & 1st AA

[2747andy]

Bruno and other cloth collectors,

once again I am full of praise for this publication, however I have two small questions;

1. Brian Lee Davis describes the 1st AA Div badge shown below as "1st Pattern" (108) however you have it as "3rd Pattern" (E397). Which is correct?

2. The 8th Armd Bde badge also shown below is only shown in printed form (B521) and not embroidered. Is this a fake or a missing example, it looks and feels good and passes the burn test.

Thanks in advance

Andy

[54Bty]

The Khaki background 1 AA Div is 3rd Pattern.

Marc

[Mike Jackson]

There are several contemporary variations on the 8 Armd Bde EonF sign. I imagine that most were made up in the period Dec 43 - Jun 44 when the brigade was in UK. The version on the 8 Armd Bde History is remarkably inaccurate! Mike
8 Armd Bde.02.jpg8 Armd Bde History.02.jpg

[mcload]

Originally Posted by 2747andy

2. The 8th Armd Bde badge also shown below is only shown in printed form (B521) and not embroidered. Is this a fake or a missing example, it looks and feels good and passes the burn test.

If i'm right, the 8th Armoured Brigade badge exists in embroidered version (see B522 in my book and Mike's badge in his past message). The badge you have seems to be a reproduction manufactured by Cunnard in 1998-2000 and sold through ebay USA as "original". They don't often blowing under UV but they are recognizable by their thickness and their rigidity. Original are soft. Can anyone confirm ?

[fearnaught]

Hi Mike, not that dissimilar to the original badge, Brian Davies had the original paperwork about this badge but where it is now I don't know. Anyone out there know what happened to Brian's notes? best wishes Mike

[Mike Jackson]

Originally Posted by fearnaught

Hi Mike, not that dissimilar to the original badge, Brian Davies had the original paperwork about this badge but where it is now I don't know. Anyone out there know what happened to Brian's notes? best wishes Mike

I have no idea where Brian's invaluable notes have gone - but I hope they are with someone who will make good use of them - and share the information. The sign you illustrate is interesting - very detailed embroidery but how different the left hand side of the fox's mask is from the right. It's as if two designers started fro the edge and met in the middle! Mike.

[fearnaught]

Hi Mike, the differences between the two sides of the head carried on through to the printed version and you get handed heads. Maybe foxes have different sides to their faces, but all the ones I've seen look symmetrical to me, that is living foxes. Maybe the embroidered versions are handed too, must check it out, have a good morning, best wishes Mike

[blackpowder44]

Here are my two versions of the 8th. armoured. the first badge was identified as the first pattern by Les Cable. John

[fearnaught]

Hi John, I'm assuming you mean 8th Armoured Brigade, do you have any evidence that the badge is the first pattern. I've always understood that the first pattern was just a continuation of 10th Div, then the cloth embroidered version you show and the printed version of that. The printed version you show I've always assumed was some reenactors version. I would be more than pleased to be proven wrong, best wishes Mike

[Mike Jackson]

This is a contemporary (late 1943) image of the 8 Armd Bde sign as applied to vehicles in the ME. I have doubts about the authenticity of the printed sign illustrated above - not just design but also method of manufacture and that "give away" border stitching.
Mike
Badge_42.1.jpg

[Postwarden]

Two further contributions.

Like many people I have wondered what became of Brian Davis's archive but he kindly let me scan the manufacturer's card for the badge which I think is the one that Mike D referred to.

Also interested in his comment about handed foxes and on checking my scans I see that I do indeed have images of left and right handed ones.

Jon

[fearnaught]

Hi Jon, thank you for the scan. That badge was probably too complicated to manufacture, I've only seen three including the one on the scan. I think even at the time the soldiers didn't realise they were handed. I had eight from a Sherwood Rangers collection and they were all one handed, best wishes Mike

[Bill A]

Discussion merited moving posts about the 8th Armd Bde an 1 AA to its own thread.
Interesting information.

[Mike Jackson]

Originally Posted by Postwarden

Two further contributions.

Like many people I have wondered what became of Brian Davis's archive but he kindly let me scan the manufacturer's card for the badge which I think is the one that Mike D referred to.

Also interested in his comment about handed foxes and on checking my scans I see that I do indeed have images of left and right handed ones.

Jon

The card is very interesting - it should be possible to narrow down the date since it names the Bde Comd - Brigadier Prior-Palmer (Lucinda's father I assume). Also the reference to the little used BLA (British Liberation Army) Mike

[Postwarden]

Two slightly different examples of the better quality embroidered sign.

By the time this was produced official policy was that all formation signs should be printed but there is quite a lot of evidence that officers wore embroidered ones and ORs printed. The pattern card says HQ 8th Armoured Brigade possibly suggesting that the nicer version was to be worn by officers only?

Jon