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  #1  
Old 31-03-16, 03:57 PM
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Mercian Mercian is online now
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Question Suspicions about Cheshire badges?

I have noticed in the last few weeks there has been a lot of Victorian/Edwardian Cheshire Regiment badges on Ebay by various sellers, all are lugged and all have a round sweat hole in them, as these badges came into use in December 1900, and sliders started to come in circa 1903, to have six for sale this week at the same time makes me a bit suspicious, and also over the last few months several broached versions with a round sweat hole have also been for sale. My version of the badge has a slotted hole in comparison. I am I being a bit paranoid?
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  #2  
Old 31-03-16, 04:32 PM
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Peter Brydon Peter Brydon is offline
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Mercian,

I am in total agreement, when numbers of similar, relatively uncommon,badges suddenly start appearing for sale it is time to be suspicious.

This is one source of a lot of ( to be polite , shall we say ) non original badges:

http://www.arbeia.demon.co.uk/srs/co...ry/desc_b.htm#

Perhaps we ought to be monitoring sites like this to see what their latest offerings are and what we might see suddenly appearing in numbers on auction sites.

Regards

Peter
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  #3  
Old 31-03-16, 04:38 PM
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All of the ones shown look fine to me with the large oval hole in the centre of the badge. Whilst the pattern was Victorian its use may have extended beyond 1903 on the FSC if the Battalion was in India or the like.

SRS sell the same rubbish as Taxicar/Croft collectables/etc

Alan
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  #4  
Old 31-03-16, 07:03 PM
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Sonofacqms Sonofacqms is offline
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Cool Cheshire Regt

I am not a collector specifically to the Cheshire Regt, but I must say that these look OK to me.

This phenomenon of a number of the same badges appearing more or less at the same time could be the result of a collector selling off a specific collection to a Regiment, possibly in job lots to dealers who may be selling them on.

I agree it does look suspicious, but I think it's nothing new.

Rob
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  #5  
Old 31-03-16, 08:30 PM
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I recall on a visit to the Cheshires' Museum in Chester, there being a display of maybe thirty of this pattern in a a frame.
Seems badge collectors are the only sorts to find the back of a badge as interesting as the front
Cheers Tony.
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  #6  
Old 31-03-16, 08:42 PM
49lassiepen 49lassiepen is online now
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The badge on your 1st row top right [no5] looks like the badge being sold by a person with some very nice victorian/edwardian badges They all look o.k
David
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  #7  
Old 01-04-16, 08:52 AM
Mike B Mike B is offline
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It is good to raise such questions and share concerns. I do have a lugged Cheshire Regiment badge sourced by Mike Lukich in South Africa many, many years ago - it has a round sweat hole. Most likely Boer war example. I apologise for not having an image to share
Mike
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  #8  
Old 01-04-16, 09:35 AM
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I know the 2nd, 3rd and 4th battalions wore the badge in South Africa the 1st was in India. Over the years I have picked up example's with slotted sweat holes and also one's with round holes, 3 or 4mm in diameter in B/M and WM. My main concern after years of collecting and scouring EBay with hardly one of these badges for sale, I can have my pick of six with prices ranging from £5 to £28.
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  #9  
Old 01-04-16, 09:55 AM
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Whilst I agree, it is certainly very wise to be a little cautious, it should always be borne in mind that these are very common badges and were often only worn for a short period of time by many that had been originally issued with them.
So many 2nd Battalion men were Reservists, called back to the Colours as the teatime War turned into actual war in South Africa, so, as a direct result of that, you do see a great many clean examples with very little wear, I have a shoe box full of infantry, all bought home from South Africa in the 1970's and without even bothering to go scratching the surface, I can see, immediately, the three attached.
Notwithstanding, quite frankly, the reality, remains simply that you will encounter so very many different badges, with both rectangular and round holes, of differing size, to the reverse of the star, from differing dies and manufacture.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercian View Post
I have noticed in the last few weeks there has been a lot of Victorian/Edwardian Cheshire Regiment badges on Ebay by various sellers, all are lugged and all have a round sweat hole in them, as these badges came into use in December 1900, and sliders started to come in circa 1903, to have six for sale this week at the same time makes me a bit suspicious, and also over the last few months several broached versions with a round sweat hole have also been for sale. My version of the badge has a slotted hole in comparison. I am I being a bit paranoid?
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Last edited by Frank Kelley; 01-04-16 at 12:56 PM.
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  #10  
Old 01-04-16, 10:02 AM
Mike B Mike B is offline
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I once had a Boer War (King and Queens medal) / WW1 (Trio) medal group to a chap called Rimmer - 2 Bn Cheshire Reg and 8 Mounted Infantry - for a short time POW of the Boers but escaped - I sold all my medals when getting involved in Cdo items - but I really liked that grouping. I think the Cheshire Regimental Museum may have had a photograph album of Service in South Africa - pretty sure Cheshire Reg but it has been so long since I heard about it that I could be mistaken and it could be Cheshire Yeomanry.
Good hunting
Mike
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  #11  
Old 01-04-16, 12:55 PM
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Frank Kelley Frank Kelley is offline
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He "escaped" how very odd, in the Anglo Boer War, most were simply released, some, quite literally, a matter of hours after being captured.

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I once had a Boer War (King and Queens medal) / WW1 (Trio) medal group to a chap called Rimmer - 2 Bn Cheshire Reg and 8 Mounted Infantry - for a short time POW of the Boers but escaped - I sold all my medals when getting involved in Cdo items - but I really liked that grouping. I think the Cheshire Regimental Museum may have had a photograph album of Service in South Africa - pretty sure Cheshire Reg but it has been so long since I heard about it that I could be mistaken and it could be Cheshire Yeomanry.
Good hunting
Mike
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  #12  
Old 01-04-16, 01:08 PM
Mike B Mike B is offline
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Frank - in that case read 'released' - my memory is not as good as it was - still a great little grouping with a fascinating background surely. Thanks for the correction.
Mike
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  #13  
Old 01-04-16, 01:11 PM
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Hello Mike, no, not correcting you, simply saying, very unusual that's all, regards Frank.
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  #14  
Old 01-04-16, 03:00 PM
Mike B Mike B is offline
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Frank - from memory - (admittedly a bit distant now) - you are right in suggesting captivity was for a very short period. I can not find my notes but think it was indeed for only a matter of days. Quite likely he was 'released' as you suggest.
Mike

Mercian - sorry for going a little off thread. I hope as a Cheshire collector you may have ended up with the Rimmer Group. I released it through the old Liverpool Coin and Medal shop.
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  #15  
Old 13-07-20, 02:20 PM
R.J. Bradshaw R.J. Bradshaw is offline
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Hi, for what its worth, after a 18 months worth of studies in the lab at Derby University working on my dissertation -whose subject was the restrike problem- I found that most if not all genuine cap badges up to the Anodised Aluminium period have these gas-escape holes to allow the fumes from the high temperature gas braze that is only seen on genuine badges.

The badges you show in the jpegs all seem to have this characteristic yellow solder spill and run-off which because of the very high temperature necessary for this volatile medium, most re-strikes do not have; though, in the intervening time, I suppose there may be exceptions. Invest, if you already havent, in a jewellers loupe and look at the yellow solder closely. Genuine ones usually resemble a moonscape effect in the braze, whilst restrikes with copper coloured solder do not. Restrikers either cannot or will not reproduce this effect because of the volatility of the medium. This part of the manufacturing process was completed by highly skilled artisans, which is why, during WW1 a series of stamped brasses called "Economy Strikes" appeared not because of the cost side of the economy, but because of the economy of labour!

The explanation for so many appering on eBay will always arouse suspicion I suppose, but 20 odd years ago I bought a Leicestershire Regiment badge from a well-known dealer, which was in mint, unissued condition from big display board found in the attic of what had been an old Army Recruiting Office in Derby! This still has a gilt wash finish on it, which old-soldiers used to remove by burning off in the tin-lid of boot polish before bulling to a high shine!

I hope this helps?

Last edited by R.J. Bradshaw; 13-07-20 at 02:30 PM.
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