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#1
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WW1 or WW2 Canadian officers hat with gold trim, which badge?
Hi guys,
Picked this up in a bunch of RCMP stuff, but was told it was definitely not RCMP and was instead WW1 or maybe WW2 era and Canadian. Would anyone know what badge would fit this hat? I would like really like to unite a badge with it for my own collection or at least trade it to someone who has the insignia. There are two holes on the front where the badge would have gone, I was thinking maybe artillery? Thanks |
#2
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Hello
Would I be right in saying that the RCMP doesn't have the yellow piping around the crown? It could be a cap for the Norfolk Yeomanry. I can't tell, but would the badge fit? |
#3
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Hi Andy,
Thanks for your help, not sure if the badge would fit (not sure if I have one laying around) but the RCMP did at one point have many variations of these caps and some did have yellow piping (I beleive) Cheers |
#4
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Looks like Windsor Regiment. I'll post a photo of an officer wearing the cap. If you're interested in giving me a chance to add this to my collection, just let me know.
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#5
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As promised. The first photo is the Essex Regiment (Tank) cap without the piping. Next is Lt Col Robert Mepham CD who was Commandig Officer of the 22nd Reconnaissance Regiment from 20 May, 1955 to 30 September, 1959. It's interesting to note that although the names were changed to the Windsor Regiment in 1949, the Regiment continued to wear the Essex Tank badge. Next is a photo of Lt Col Arnold Harrison CD who was C.O. from 1 October 1959 to 23 October, 1963 (note the cap badge). Last is a photo of the backs of three Windsor Regiment and one ESsex Regiment (Tank) cap badges to show the different types of fasteners used.
Cheers, John |
#6
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With the yellow banding (not sure of the proper name), the cap is for a cavalry regiment. There were many mounted or cavalry regiments in the prairies, and officer's kit was frequently bought from UK outfitters. From the design, the cap appears to be pre Second World War, but that is speculative.
Note the RCMP also wear the yellow band as they were originally considered a mounted unit. Sarge, the yellow banding was the cavalry branch colour, which armoured units adopted. My dad's Grey & Simcoe Foresters forage cap had yellow banding from the time that they were armoured.
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Res ipsa loquitur |
#7
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Thanks for the info sarge and Bill,
Quote:
I think your right that it could have been used by Armor as well as RCMP but was primarily cavalry. I have attached two pictures of the hat with the RCMP KC badge (fits like a glove) and the Essex tank (lugs too close together to fit). I would be great if it was a RCMP hat a member had privately purchased, but aside from the great fit I don't know if there is a way to prove it. |
#8
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The amount of braid was specific to certain ranks, eg the cap may have been for a captain or major. (I am not familiar with the braid, Clive may have more when he sees this thread.) If the cap was RCMP, it may have been for a higher ranking officer, eg Inspector or Superintendent. If they were that rank, they may have had to buy their own kit.
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Res ipsa loquitur |
#9
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Bill, you are absolutely correct in that the yellow band was a cavalry thing and that units, like the Essex Tank and the Windsors after them adopted it.
The Inspectors at work wear a braid very similar on their caps so it certainly is in the realm of possibility that it is an RCMP hat. Cheers, John |
#10
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YELLOW-BANDED CAP
Some Canadian cavalry regiments, regular and militia, until 1970 wore peaked caps with coloured bands. e.g. green, yellow, white. Other ranks and junior officers' caps had plain peaks. Senior officers' (majors and above) caps had gold braid on the brim as shown in capbadge's photo. The piping around the crown was generally not continued after the Second World War, and the photos provided by Sarge may show caps that were handed down form pre-war officers. A number of Canadian infantry regiments were converted to armour after the Second World War; these generally adopted cavalry dress distinctions such as yellow cap bands, chain mail shoulder epaulettes, and spurs and cavalry pattern sabres for officers. Each regiment had its own distinctions, so it is difficult to generalize. I will not even try to comment on RCMP dress.
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#11
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As has been stated above, the forage cap is a 'cavalry' cap and this includes the RCMP who continue to wear yellow facings, headband and trouser stripes.
From the construction I would say 19302 but the style was still in wear in the 50s. By the 60s the caps had a fuller crown due to a padded lining. Are there any buttons on the cap? These would have held the missing chinstrap in place. If they are General Service or regimental then it is military and if they are RNWMP/RCMP then no further identification is needed. If they are missing then try a bunch of different badges until you find one that matches the edge wear. The RCMP seems to do that but hard to tell in the photos.
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Those who live by the sword will be shot by those of us who have progressed. |
#12
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If an RCMP officer were purchasing a cap from the UK (expensive) wouldn't he also be wearing the bullion cap badge, for Inspectors and higher?
Phil
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Courtesy of The Canadian Forces: https://www.canada.ca/en/department-.../lineages.html Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur Hanlon's razor: Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity. |
#13
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Small bit of info - braid on the peak indicates the cap is for a "field officer" i.e. Major and Lt Colonel.
Eddie |
#14
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Try a 1922 style 12th Manitoba Dragoons.... similiar to the RCMP capbadge...
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#15
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officers hat
The RNWMP were cavalry in WW 1 with the Canadian Light Horse and the Siberian force. It might have come from that era.
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