Pre WWI SA Inf Regts

[Traist]

Hi Iain, it is the only one I have seen. I know of another one in Canada. Regards Andrew

[Frank Kelley]

Hello Iain,
As Andrew has already shown the DFH plate, I need not show mine, so here is the badge.
Regards Frank

[Frank Kelley]

Hello Iain,
The Victorian, looped, Jewelled, Indian crown, call it what you like, was used quite a lot throughout the period in question here and many wore it, including the horse's of the Diamond Fields Horse.
In fact, from memory, I think the Natal Carbineer's also wore it!
Regards Frank

Originally Posted by iaindh

Hi Andrew,

these are 3 very nice badges you have here. What's the significance of the coronet on the DFH? It looks a little like the one on the "Dukes."

regards, Iain

[Traist]

Hi Frank, that is a beaut. If it needs a new home, please let me know . Have a grand day. Andrew

[Frank Kelley]

Hello Andrew,
It's not I can assure you, I think it was worn by a rather "rough" horse!
Regards Frank

[iaindh]

Hi Frank,

no, not the same as the NC, the DFH crown has more loops if that is the correct terminology.

After a quick stroll through Owen's, the only other one like it is the CMR.
Unless the others are poor depictions?

I will say the normal QV crown has sharp angles at the top.

regards, Iain

Originally Posted by Frank Kelley

Hello Iain,
The Victorian, looped, Jewelled, Indian crown, call it what you like, was used quite a lot throughout the period in question here and many wore it, including the horse's of the Diamond Fields Horse.
In fact, from memory, I think the Natal Carbineer's also wore it!
Regards Frank

[Frank Kelley]

Hello Iain,
The looped crowns may differ in small detail, but, they still represent, the same looped crown, i.e. not the normal QV crown.
It is not a normal Victorian crown and you should not be comparing the two, they are completely differant, it was used by the Natal Carbineer's on some of their accoutrements and furniture in Queen Victoria's day, moreover, I think it is very important to remember that just because items cannot be found in Colin Owen's book, it does not mean that they did not exist.
Regards Frank

Originally Posted by iaindh

Hi Frank,

no, not the same as the NC, the DFH crown has more loops if that is the correct terminology.

After a quick stroll through Owen's, the only other one like it is the CMR.
Unless the others are poor depictions?

I will say the normal QV crown has sharp angles at the top.

regards, Iain

[Traist]

Originally Posted by Frank Kelley

Hello Andrew,
It's not I can assure you, I think it was worn by a rather "rough" horse!
Regards Frank

Well in that case, I am always happy to buy "scrap metal"

[iaindh]

Hi Frank,

I'll take your word that they are the same crown because the outline is the same and I dont think the proverbial blind man on a galloping horse would notice the difference

I think you also misinterpreted my previous post as I wasn't comparing the normal QV crown but pointing out the difference. I consider it unlikely that there were 3 crowns.

Sorry Frank and forgive me but this cracks me up, it still looks more like the DOEOR Ducal crown than the NC QVC crown.

Kind regards and apologies, Iain

Originally Posted by Frank Kelley

Hello Iain,
The looped crowns may differ in small detail, but, they still represent, the same looped crown, i.e. not the normal QV crown.
It is not a normal Victorian crown and you should not be comparing the two, they are completely differant, it was used by the Natal Carbineer's on some of their accoutrements and furniture in Queen Victoria's day, moreover, I think it is very important to remember that just because items cannot be found in Colin Owen's book, it does not mean that they did not exist.
Regards Frank

[Arthur R]

The crown looks more like the Dutch or Belgian royal crown. The British crown has only two arches (one front-to-back and one side-to-side) and the circlet is decorated with alternating crosses and fleurs de lis. This crown has four arches (i.e. two diagonal ones as well) and the circlet is decorated with stylised leaves. Perhaps someone in Kimberley got confused! They're still handsome badges all the same.

[iaindh]

As I mentioned earlier, CMR 162 in Owen's is exactly the same crown.
The arches on the QVC are also straight whereas those on the DFH and CMR have cutaway detail.

Originally Posted by Arthur R

The crown looks more like the Dutch or Belgian royal crown. The British crown has only two arches (one front-to-back and one side-to-side) and the circlet is decorated with alternating crosses and fleurs de lis. This crown has four arches (i.e. two diagonal ones as well) and the circlet is decorated with stylised leaves. Perhaps someone in Kimberley got confused! They're still handsome badges all the same.

[Frank Kelley]

Hello Iain,
In Owen, 162, 176, 178, 182, 183, 184 and 185, they ALL REPRESENT THE SAME LOOPED CROWN, when Queen Victoria died, that crown was replaced by the the crown on 187 etc!
177 and 180 are differant, they are much more of a guelphic style crown, less Indian and more German!
Regards Frank

Originally Posted by iaindh

As I mentioned earlier, CMR 162 in Owen's is exactly the same crown.
The arches on the QVC are also straight whereas those on the DFH and CMR have cutaway detail.

[Frank Kelley]

Hello Arthur,
The crown represents Queen Victoria, it is Indian in appearance and has "loops" of pearls, the DFH knew exactly what it wanted when it came to badges and helmet plates, they were all made in Great Britain.
There was no confusion in cavalry depot at Canterbury either, the Queens own 7th Hussars, who famously wore this crown until Queen Victoria died in 1902, it was then replaced, as was the case with the DFH!
Kind regards Frank

Originally Posted by Arthur R

The crown looks more like the Dutch or Belgian royal crown. The British crown has only two arches (one front-to-back and one side-to-side) and the circlet is decorated with alternating crosses and fleurs de lis. This crown has four arches (i.e. two diagonal ones as well) and the circlet is decorated with stylised leaves. Perhaps someone in Kimberley got confused! They're still handsome badges all the same.

[iaindh]

Hi Frank,

The badges you quoted "In Owen, 162, 176, 178, 182, 183, 184 and 185, they ALL REPRESENT THE SAME LOOPED CROWN" are already accepted as being the same crown but are you are saying there were 3 types of QV crown,
1. examples 162 CMR, 176 etc DFH,
2. then example 191 VR or 354 NC,
3 example 416 DLI.

I shan't include 187, KC as that will just confuse the issue.

regard, Iain

Originally Posted by Frank Kelley

Hello Iain,
In Owen, 162, 176, 178, 182, 183, 184 and 185, they ALL REPRESENT THE SAME LOOPED CROWN, when Queen Victoria died, that crown was replaced by the the crown on 187 etc!
177 and 180 are differant, they are much more of a guelphic style crown, less Indian and more German!
Regards Frank

[Frank Kelley]

Hello Iain,
I am saying that the looped crown as used by the DFH and others represents Queen Victoria during her reign.
The Queen certainly had three crowns, but, did not like wearing them and liked only wearing the small one she designed herself!
When it comes to badges you are quite right, with the three styles of crown that were used in the period in question here, don't forget that the DFH could have ordered whatsoever they happened to like after seeing what was on offer in the pattern books in terms of crowns.
Regards Frank

Originally Posted by iaindh

Hi Frank,

The badges you quoted "In Owen, 162, 176, 178, 182, 183, 184 and 185, they ALL REPRESENT THE SAME LOOPED CROWN" are already accepted as being the same crown but are you are saying there were 3 types of QV crown,
1. examples 162 CMR, 176 etc DFH,
2. then example 191 VR or 354 NC,
3 example 416 DLI.

I shan't include 187, KC as that will just confuse the issue.

regard, Iain