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  #16  
Old 10-03-16, 08:00 PM
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Alan O Alan O is offline
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http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1st-Volunt...16.m2518.l4276

recognise the oval overlaid plaque.......
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  #17  
Old 10-03-16, 08:04 PM
2747andy 2747andy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan O View Post
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1st-Volunt...16.m2518.l4276

recognise the oval overlaid plaque.......
Alan,
no it's not that one.....

I have looked at many variations of the oval plate, and the one you link to is not the same! The "1st" is underlined and not 2 x dots and there is a beveled edge to the plate!

Andy
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  #18  
Old 10-03-16, 08:07 PM
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so lots of fake plates and scrolls and no photos as yet of the original badge.
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  #19  
Old 10-03-16, 08:11 PM
2747andy 2747andy is offline
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Alan,
there are thousands of badges that there are not photos of!!

Show me them all and I'll join the "Negativity" club too!

Andy
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  #20  
Old 10-03-16, 08:15 PM
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Without evidence then it's suspect. Can you prove the DCLI VB wore a peaked cap 1905-08? No? Can you explain why the 1 VB wore 2 badge designs. No?
All suspect.

An absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. But I would not spend a lot of money on a dealer's hunch.
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  #21  
Old 10-03-16, 08:23 PM
2747andy 2747andy is offline
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Alan,
all I'm trying to point out is that I have collected badges for over 40 years, I'm not saying it is genuine, just that it is the most convincing example I have seen to date!

"We are sometimes allowed to take our heads out of the bucket of sand some seem to be continuously stuck in!"

Andy
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  #22  
Old 10-03-16, 08:28 PM
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But convincing example of what?

Where is the evidence that an oval plaque 1 VB DCLI ever existed?

The first fakes were of rare badges for the yeomanry and the VBs because they were so scarce even in the 1970s. Think of the w/m KEH. Lots of age to them being 50 years old but total fantasy.

There is now access to a huge amount of information through the internet that never existed even 10 let alone 20 years ago. You only have to look at any chapter in K&K and see what badges were misidentified then because the authors simply did not have access to such primary source material.
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  #23  
Old 10-03-16, 08:30 PM
2747andy 2747andy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan O View Post
Without evidence then it's suspect. Can you prove the DCLI VB wore a peaked cap 1905-08? No? Can you explain why the 1 VB wore 2 badge designs. No?
All suspect.

An absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. But I would not spend a lot of money on a dealer's hunch.
Show me the evidence that proves that Some bloke with a beard, was shoved in a cave, having been nailed to a wooden cross and having his ribs ventilated by a Roman sword and I'll join your gang of "Restrike" seeking Doubting Thomas's".. Plenty seem to go along with that theory?

This is a Hobby that needs an open mind, not a "One Tracked Variation"...

The badge is mine, I am not attempting to sell it, unlike some dealers who flog fakes and then claim that they are innocent victims of someone else's "Opinion"..

Until I acquired it, I also thought the oval plate versions were FAKE, now I'm uncertain! Is that allowed?

Andy
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  #24  
Old 10-03-16, 08:34 PM
2747andy 2747andy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan O View Post
But convincing example of what?

Where is the evidence that an oval plaque 1 VB DCLI ever existed?

The first fakes were of rare badges for the yeomanry and the VBs because they were so scarce even in the 1970s. Think of the w/m KEH. Lots of age to them being 50 years old but total fantasy.

There is now access to a huge amount of information through the internet that never existed even 10 let alone 20 years ago. You only have to look at any chapter in K&K and see what badges were misidentified then because the authors simply did not have access to such primary source material.
Alan,
you are "Farting in a Gale".. I'm not a newbie who you can attempt to suppress!

But thank you for imparting your experience and knowledge, it is considered, as always!

Andy
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  #25  
Old 10-03-16, 08:48 PM
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Andy

I have actually done some work researching this badge. There is an example of this badge in K&K. But as we know K&K has a few issues and mis-identifications for the reasons explained in my post above. Ironically they mid-identified a DCLI badge as a regular Victorian SLI badge, so as with all secondary or tertiary sources you need to review the evidence.

As an unattributed source K&K is not that great a reference. Now if you could find some primary source material to provide contemporary evidence for either of the 2 variant badges then that would be helpful.

Anyway the first question about maker's mark I think has been answered.

Alan
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  #26  
Old 10-03-16, 09:16 PM
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OK enough. I have deleted the previous thread with it's unpleasant language and some others and following complaints from a number of other members about his conduct this week, Andy is taking a break from the forum.
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  #27  
Old 10-03-16, 09:34 PM
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What a really interesting debate !

On second thoughts, it can not be a debate because Alan, you have now banned Andy for having his own opinion, in a perverse way, " Animal Farm " comes to mind.

I do not profess to have everyone waiting with bated breath to see how I react to your stance but I do know that some will be hoping the dummy goes through the air.

Everyone knows that Andy is a very good friend of mine and like everyone else in a similar situation, I will stand by my mate. I know him better than most forum members, he is always willing to offer help and advice and he is as straight as a die.

If you see fit to ban him for such a banal reason as disagreeing with you, I find that very immature, I will miss all the friends I have made on the forum and if I have repairs for any of you, they will be done and returned in due course.

Alan, I am disappointed in you not only as a moderator but as a man.

Dave.
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  #28  
Old 10-03-16, 09:37 PM
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Dave

I am not banning him for mot agreeing with me but for his rude language and a number of complaints this week from other members. Hence the reason I have deleted his profanity. It's free forum but there are limits.


Alan
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  #29  
Old 10-03-16, 10:02 PM
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By using a bit of profanity perhaps Andy has given his detractors the ammunition they have been looking for to have a go at him, after all he has the integrity to stand up and say what he thinks rather than stick his head in the sand and say nothing when something is wrong. Some people don't like this.

So he said something that wasn't liked, so what? Deleting offending posts would have solved the problem, banning Andy does seem like a piece of 'payback' for disagreeing with a mod.

Its a perverse situation that an honest collector and dealer who freely gives his knowledge and shares his collection with us all (not to mention the fact that he opens his doors to allow fellow collectors to sample his hospitality) has been banned but yet we are content to put up with dishonest, crooked purveyors of crap who sneak in as members under false names.

It smells.
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  #30  
Old 10-03-16, 10:19 PM
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Aren't we all grown ups here who can handle a bit of 'bad' with a lot of good? I've learned more from Andy than from at least 85% of all other members combined, and who hasn't? Isn't the Forum better off with outspoken members? Isn't that what a Forum should be all about? Lively debate? On the whole he made me laugh a lot more than frown, which I consider a good thing.
I seriously hope he is allowed back and is willing to return.

Rgds, Thomas.
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