LRDG Pith

[dumdum]

Maybe tell them to "pith off"......

[seanhath]

Originally Posted by NEMO

A good meal and a bottle of red ???? Beef Wellington and a Argentine Malbec ????

Something like that.

I’m somewhat put back by the obvious schadenfreude in some of the replies here. It’s not the forum I remember.

[grenadierguardsman]

Originally Posted by seanhath

Something like that.

I’m somewhat put back by the obvious schadenfreude in some of the replies here. It’s not the forum I remember.

Take no notice mate, we've all be caught out.
Andy

[Frank Kelley]

I certainly don't get any pleasure, whatsoever, from reading this thread, it does not matter how much money you have spent, if it was offered as original by the saleroom concerned, I would send it back.

Originally Posted by seanhath

Something like that.

I’m somewhat put back by the obvious schadenfreude in some of the replies here. It’s not the forum I remember.

[Mike B]

Originally Posted by seanhath

Something like that.

I’m somewhat put back by the obvious schadenfreude in some of the replies here. It’s not the forum I remember.

No pleasure taken from a fellow collectors misfortune - a sad fact that the path of Special Forces collecting is a minefield ...

[seanhath]

Inevitably the Badge and Pith helmet (together with two other lots from the same sale are fake. They are without doubt counterfeit. What gets me is that the auction house MUST suspect this to be the case - yet use ambiguity and T&Cs to exonerate themselves from Conducting business in a trustworthy fashion.

I’ve sent them this and will be sending back these items.

I would like to speak to someone regarding the following items;
Sale date 05/01/2021
Lot number 3485 German Oranje Armband
Lot number 3506 French resistance armband
Lot number 3530 WWII LRDG Pith helmet

I have received these items and they have been seen by an independent expert.
The above lots are counterfeit items. They are not genuine, they are not original and they have been made and artificially aged to deceive.
As such I would like to return them to you for a full refund.
I am shocked that a reputable auction house (ostensibly employing subject matter experts) would seek to sell these items.
Your terms and conditions are reliant upon ambiguity, and each listing has been named with a subtle but important ‘type’ which any reasonable person able to read between the lines (seeing these items in hand) can see should read ‘a counterfeit item we are looking to sell via unclear photographs’.
Please confirm receipt of this notice, and I will duly package up these counterfeit goods and send them back to you.
Kind regards,
Sean

[grenadierguardsman]

I hope you get some justice from these dodgy individuals. Every Auction house ( most ) is at it. Shocking practise.....
All the best
Andy

[CAM]

Originally Posted by seanhath

Something like that.

I’m somewhat put back by the obvious schadenfreude in some of the replies here. It’s not the forum I remember.

It is a bugger when it happens - particularly when you think you are about to get a goody through the post. I have been stung a few times.

I did pick up a fake recently (HCB sporran badge)- fortunately I suspected it to be a copy and spent less than a fiver incl postage. But it still is pretty. I will annotate it with a red dot sticker when I put it on a board.

Chris

[Frank Kelley]

Well done, I would send the whole bloody lot back with a note advising them that you will take matters further if you do not hear from them in due course!

Originally Posted by seanhath

Inevitably the Badge and Pith helmet (together with two other lots from the same sale are fake. They are without doubt counterfeit. What gets me is that the auction house MUST suspect this to be the case - yet use ambiguity and T&Cs to exonerate themselves from Conducting business in a trustworthy fashion.

I’ve sent them this and will be sending back these items.

I would like to speak to someone regarding the following items;
Sale date 05/01/2021
Lot number 3485 German Oranje Armband
Lot number 3506 French resistance armband
Lot number 3530 WWII LRDG Pith helmet

I have received these items and they have been seen by an independent expert.
The above lots are counterfeit items. They are not genuine, they are not original and they have been made and artificially aged to deceive.
As such I would like to return them to you for a full refund.
I am shocked that a reputable auction house (ostensibly employing subject matter experts) would seek to sell these items.
Your terms and conditions are reliant upon ambiguity, and each listing has been named with a subtle but important ‘type’ which any reasonable person able to read between the lines (seeing these items in hand) can see should read ‘a counterfeit item we are looking to sell via unclear photographs’.
Please confirm receipt of this notice, and I will duly package up these counterfeit goods and send them back to you.
Kind regards,
Sean

[RobD]

I share your pain.
However, the auction house uses a carefully-chosen word, "type", in its descriptions of some lots to cover themselves. The lot in question is described as

British WWII type Long Range Desert Group pith helmet

https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/a...b4#lotDetails\

They also make a general disclaimer at the start:
THIS SALE CONTAINS A MIXTURE OF PERIOD AND LATER ITEMS. ALTHOUGH YOU MAY BE GUIDED BY OUR ESTIMATES, CUSTOMERS SHOULD SATISFY THEMSELVES AS TO THE AGE OF ITEMS PRIOR TO BIDDING.
I imagine they face this sort of complaint daily, and since they haven't gone out of business I would be surprised if they admit fault; do let us know the outcome.
.
Once again, commiserations

[popskipa]

Quote (...the auction house uses a carefully-chosen word, "type", in its descriptions of some lots to cover themselves. The lot in question is described as British WWII type Long Range Desert Group pith helmet
https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/a...b4#lotDetails\
They also make a general disclaimer at the start:
THIS SALE CONTAINS A MIXTURE OF PERIOD AND LATER ITEMS. ALTHOUGH YOU MAY BE GUIDED BY OUR ESTIMATES, CUSTOMERS SHOULD SATISFY THEMSELVES AS TO THE AGE OF ITEMS PRIOR TO BIDDING.
I imagine they face this sort of complaint daily, and since they haven't gone out of business I would be surprised if they admit fault; do let us know the outcome.) End quote

With the viewing restrictions, because of covid lockdown, I would be surprised if the disclaimer would hold water if challenged in the Small Claims Court.

There are far too many auctioneers using this "disclaimer " as an excuse for selling fakes. They need to be challenged and forced to change, as currently most auctions are more concerned with their commission fee than customer satisfaction.

There is no excuse as all auctions have in-house experts or access to experts who should be able to sort the fakes from original military items.

Keith

[redman]

Hi all,
What I see of most auction houses, they really don't give a ***t. And they are complicit in selling fakes as the traders that put the items up for sale. Recently a lot of this militaria has been coming around on auction houses, from LRDG to Chinese Labour Corps, U boat badges etc etc and lots of other stuff beyond my limited knowledge.

Advice; disbelieve , be very wary, and enquire before bidding.

I got stung on a NZ camel corps badge out of Stacey's a few years ago.

If it's too good to be true it is.

Buyer beware.

Hate to see fellow collectors stung.
Kind regards
Dan

[seanhath]

So, good news!

After lots of emails bouncing back and forth I have sent the items back for a refund.
A basic history of communication between us can be summarised:

I first made contact to point out that the goods weren't just 'wrong', they were were completely counterfeit and had been made to deceive.
The Auctioneers directed me to their ambiguous terms and conditions.
I replied to say the T's & C's were misleading and asked them to accept return of the items under distance selling rules (See Gov.Uk webpage - its actually pretty helpful).

The auction house replied to say that I had every opportunity to request a free 'Condition report' which would have provided greater detail, with an expert opinion regarding each lot.
I replied and asked for a retrospective report on each item (Offering to pay too) - I explained that it would be a great comfort to me if their Militaria expert would put his name to each piece, authenticating each as being genuine.

They replied to say I could send the items back for a refund ! Such was their faith in either the expert, or the authenticity of the goods?


Almost a satisfactory outcome, because I know I wasn't their only victim.
I hope that anyone else reading this in similar circumstances doesn't give up. We can't roll over and let this criminal activity continue under a cloud of dodgy T's&C's, unscrupulous item descriptions, and a LOT of hand wringing.

Too many of us write off being a victim of what is plain fraud as a 'learning experience'.
Power to the people!

Kind regards,

Sean

[JerryBB]

good news

[leigh kitchen]

Indeed.