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  #1  
Old 03-07-20, 12:50 PM
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Luke H Luke H is offline
 
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Default V-Force Opinions Please

Would appreciate opinions on this V-Force badge I recently acquired as part of a lot.

Whilst the badge differs from the one displayed in Duxford museum https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/fo...hlight=V-Force from searching the forum I’m given to understand there were apparently other makers and noted mine matches several badges shown as believed originals:

https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/fo...5&postcount=12

https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/fo...69&postcount=6

https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/fo...07&postcount=7

Note the flaw in the casting top left of the ‘V’.

Thanks for looking.
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  #2  
Old 03-07-20, 06:10 PM
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Hi Luke here is mine for comparison, hope it helps, this doesn't have the flaw? All the best billy
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  #3  
Old 03-07-20, 08:27 PM
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Thanks Billy. Yours is like the museum one and the type Sauma had here: https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/fo...98&postcount=4 and Steve’s attributed one here: https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/fo...90&postcount=1 I’m in no doubt this type is genuine.

Question is whether mine is a legit variation or a repro. I’ve had a couple of PMs and emails telling me it’s good.
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  #4  
Old 03-07-20, 09:24 PM
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Could only excess the link to Steves post, and not the first one?

Hope it all pans out on the badge but its really holding it in the hand, and I suppose if it had originally been blackened and residue was there (as you would be expecting to see ) you wouldn't be doubting the badge at all! All the best billy
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  #5  
Old 04-07-20, 03:50 AM
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Hi Luke,

I was told to look at the font of the lettering. You'll note your badges writing is larger than Billy's. Also, it looks to me like the slider has been 'shaved' to look like it is pointed. Both these things are warning signs to me.

Paul
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  #6  
Old 04-07-20, 07:18 AM
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I like the finish on the one Billy shows. I have a badge (below) which has lost its finish. It had been separated from the title and I was pleased to reunite them as it was said to be acquired that way by the person who originally had both parts. I believe the badge is the same as the one shown by Belly (see mark to reverse of slider) in Luke's first post. I attach it for comparison of lettering / slider etc. and am open to any comments. All the best Mike

Last edited by Mike B; 04-07-20 at 07:32 AM.
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  #7  
Old 04-07-20, 07:26 AM
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For interest, I also attach a silver one - acquired from Bosleys - also for comparison.

I must say, the one shown by Billy is a real cracker - lovely toning!

All the best - Mike
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  #8  
Old 04-07-20, 09:36 AM
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Lovely badges for comparison Mike.

Paul
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  #9  
Old 04-07-20, 09:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3battalion View Post
Lovely badges for comparison Mike.

Paul
Hi Paul,

Thanks for your comments and I welcome the debate.

Sorry thought I’d made it clear in my opening post that Billy’s, Sauma’s and Steve’s are from a different die. Mine and the 3 shown in the links are obviously not the same. The question for me is if there are alternative period manufacturers and is this type one.

The badge in link 3 of post #1 https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/fo...69&postcount=6 (originally shown by JDR) would appear to be the same as Mike B’s.

My badge is from the same die as JDRs/ Mike B’s i.e. the flaw on the V. So when you say mine has warning signs but his is nice, they are from the same stable so logically must either both be genuine or both repros?

As to the slider. My understanding of manufacturing is that wire/sheet metal is not manufactured with points rather it’s cut or ‘shaved’ to make a point at some stage during manufacture. Obviously there is the question as to how and when this is done.

Luke
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  #10  
Old 04-07-20, 02:22 PM
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Good debate Luke and I like the information coming out of this thread. My comment about the comparison was referring to Mike's post re: the silver V Force from Bosleys and Billy's badge - both without the die flaw and, from what I mentioned, the different font in the 'Force'.

Am unsure about the die flaw indicating originality or not but there seems to be a number of long time collectors owning badges with this flaw so it might be a good sign?

I understand your point about the shaving of the slider to form a point and my first comment was just highlighting how uneven and poorly executed it was on your badge. Not a concrete sign of fake badge but in its current form wouldn't have served the purpose of allowing ease of attachment.

I'm enjoying this thread so hopefully more examples will come out of the woodwork and we'll get some more indicators of badges good and bad.

Paul
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  #11  
Old 05-07-20, 04:47 PM
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I agree with Paul and welcome debate too. I can disclose my badge (on patch) with die flaw, was traded with Belly who got it from Jack. Jack had acquired a number of items from a Liverpool collector know to have a good Far East collection (possibly because of an interest with Chindit connection of 13th Bn Kings Liverpool Reg) Jack was sold the V Force patch - in my post - from the same collector he got the headdress badge from - both were said to be from the same veteran - and he let me know. It was my desire to keep cap badge and title together that led to a trade with Belly. Belly and I have a shared main interest in Commando insignia so it was good we came to an agreement more central to Paul's (Belly's) interest and I got the V Force cap badge to go with the title. It explains why the same badge appears in my post, and Paul's (Belly's) post.
Having examined it closely, I have no problem with it - but discussion is always welcome.
As we agree - Everyday is a school-day when we learn something - and I am still at 'school', even though a rather mature pupil ...
Regards
Mike
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  #12  
Old 06-10-20, 01:25 PM
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Bosley’s are selling one with the same flaws in their next auction.

Thoughts?
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  #13  
Old 06-10-20, 02:46 PM
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This kind of discussion is what helps all of us learn. Thank you gentlemen,

Terry
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  #14  
Old 10-10-20, 04:55 AM
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Hi Luke,

I recently handled a V Force badge with similar die flaws to the badge that started this thread and also like the one selling at Bosleys.

I believe these badges are WW2 era.

Good collecting

Paul

Last edited by 3battalion; 10-10-20 at 04:57 AM. Reason: grammar!
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  #15  
Old 10-10-20, 06:26 PM
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Thanks Paul.

Bosley’s do undoubtedly make mistakes, so this could be one. I was told the back of mine didn’t look rough enough to be an original theatre cast item but the reverse looks the same - no rougher or smoother - than the undoubted genuine example show in post #2.

We remain in the thrall of the SF experts on this one for now.

I was also told mine may be ‘cast from an original’. But I’m yet to be shown an original with any such flaws it could derive from. Most confusing. Logically this applies to all those shown in the links I provided in post #1.

Personally I’d say if these are fakes, which knowing SF items is obviously entirely possible, and it’s cast from an original (with said flaws), then Ive never seen one despite much searching. Sadly all very inconclusive. Indeed a well respected SF collector offered to buy mine.

I suspect only one like this with provenance could truly dispel the doubt.

Last edited by Luke H; 10-10-20 at 10:13 PM. Reason: Phrasing.
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