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  #16  
Old 26-10-20, 12:19 AM
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tcrown tcrown is offline
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Awesome images, thank you Marinus!

Does it mean the Gaunt die was flawed from the beginning?
I can't imagine these imperfections developed under intense striking for top silver badges in a so short period of time (May to July).
I now have my doubts on the official sealed card badge being made by Gaunt. Also, how about Silverwash's badge on post #1 which doesn't seem to have any die flaw?
Lots of question here. I hope someone will be able to provide answers.
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  #17  
Old 29-10-20, 01:50 PM
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silverwash silverwash is offline
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as discussed, a P PLATE example. the lower wing flaw has manifested itself.
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File Type: jpg DSCF0335.jpg (59.3 KB, 63 views)
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  #18  
Old 30-10-20, 12:05 AM
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A beautiful plated example. Thanks for sharing Silverwash!

It is amazing that no trace of flaw can be seen at the base of the crown as opposed to the hallmarked S badge on post 14.
I would be curious to know more on your badge https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/fo...9&d=1602273241 and if you are able to notice any trace of die imperfection. From the photo you posted I can't see any, which is quite disturbing considering that even the early badges made by Gaunt show developing flaws on the LHS.
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  #19  
Old 30-10-20, 12:44 PM
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silverwash silverwash is offline
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it is safe to say the STERLING marked example does not have any imperfections. a very early specimen ? more than one die ? the cost for hallmarking would have to have been passed on to the retailer and subsequently on to the customer. referring to the Forum, Makers' Marks, a "T" hallmarked example is shown which would indicate production year up to mid 1944. only the lower flaw is present.
to quote Toyah............................
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Last edited by silverwash; 30-10-20 at 01:01 PM. Reason: postscript
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  #20  
Old 30-10-20, 08:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silverwash View Post
it is safe to say the STERLING marked example does not have any imperfections. a very early specimen ? more than one die ? the cost for hallmarking would have to have been passed on to the retailer and subsequently on to the customer. referring to the Forum, Makers' Marks, a "T" hallmarked example is shown which would indicate production year up to mid 1944. only the lower flaw is present.
to quote Toyah............................
I think you could well be correct in thinking that your STERLING badge is possibly a very early produced example and that we cannot also rule out the possibility of more than one die being used.

Regarding the hallmarking of silver badges we know that generally hallmarks tell us when an item was made, by whom, where it was manufactured and how pure it is. Do you think that it may have been possible to produce a run of badges, keep them in stock and have them tested (assayed ) and stamped in later years as and when required by a customer, further muddying the water in terms of trying to relate the number of flaws to the year of production?

In addition to the "T" badge you mention I have also found another photographic example where the lower LHS wing flaw is barely noticeable and the upper wing flaw is just starting to form with the crown base and chute fold flaws absent.

I believe it is an interesting exercise to examine these HM silver badges and their date letter marks relative to their flaws, however I also realise that it is an impossible task to provide any solid evidence as there are too many unknowns involved regarding the production process, numbers made (possibly requiring more than one die) etc.
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  #21  
Old 30-10-20, 08:43 PM
Jack8 Jack8 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silverwash View Post
as discussed, a P PLATE example. the lower wing flaw has manifested itself.
I have this example where a different font P appears to have been used. It has three of the flaws as you can see, also yours seems to have the Lion's tail voided.

20201029_194257.jpg

20201029_194712.jpg
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  #22  
Old 31-10-20, 12:39 AM
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Thanks for your confirmation, Silverwash and thanks for posting photos of your plated badge, Jack.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack8 View Post
I think you could well be correct in thinking that your STERLING badge is possibly a very early produced example and that we cannot also rule out the possibility of more than one die being used.
I agree that the flawless STERLING badge is quite intriguing particularly in light of the hallmarked S badge (see below) which has to be an early badge struck before July 1943.
Gaunt Silver S Stamp Front.jpg
This might be an indication that another die could have been used by Gaunt at some point.
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  #23  
Old 31-10-20, 11:04 AM
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"Regarding the hallmarking of silver badges we know that generally hallmarks tell us when an item was made, by whom, where it was manufactured and how pure it is. Do you think that it may have been possible to produce a run of badges, keep them in stock and have them tested (assayed ) and stamped in later years as and when required by a customer, further muddying the water in terms of trying to relate the number of flaws to the year of production?"

quite possible. on the other side of the coin, I have a DSC to a recipient who was Gazetted in 1945. because of the backlog at the end of the War in issuing awards the hallmark for this example is 1947 but the engraved date is 1945. I would think that the people involved with such things all those years ago would be quite bemused today with collector's rationale. not withstanding that, an interesting way to pass our time keeping the World's insanity from the door !
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  #24  
Old 06-11-20, 01:34 AM
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Thanks for everyone’s contributions. I enjoyed very much sharing views on this topic.

I tried to summarize our exchanges below:
- Gaunt was likely involved in the production of early Para badges after the official sealed card was approved on March 1943
- Early badges produced by Gaunt before July 1943 show die flaws particularly along the left of the chute rigging
- Another die could have been used by Gaunt which produced flawless badges as evidenced by Silverwash with his STERLING example.
- This other die could have been used for striking White Metal ordnance issued badges
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  #25  
Old 07-11-20, 07:13 AM
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A very interesting thread indeed.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts, knowledge and photos.

Marinus
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