Bent & Parker, and Buttons Ltd.

[Mike]

http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/mak...ks/sliders.htm

Our new look makers marks page - New and improved; the idea is to have a thumbnail index linked to a dedicated page for that company containing any photos and Info.

Tackling in this thread any information on Bent and Parker Ltd and Buttons Ltd. only these two. Once this thread dies of death will start a different one.

A brainstorming session to see what we have if anything, any photos of marks, badge types the mark is found on, period of use, any info about the company. Copy/fake marks etc.

ie Bent and Parker were making Police whistles in 1885 (could be handy to know plus some other familiar names on that site) We will include all these links on the dedicated page

Bent and Parker again: original name J.J.Bent later Bent & Parker Ltd., of Harpers Hill Works, Northwood St., St. Pauls, Birmingham (c1900)
another interesting snippet from the web (that from the "Old Copper" website)

[Mike]

Bent & Parker were also hallmarking military Silver:

B&P 1869-1881?

site

[Mike]

This company gets a few mentions in the London Gazette for patents

ie

1868

2722, And to Edward Lawley Parker, trading
under the firm of Bent and Parker, of Birmingham,
in the county of Warwick, Manufacturers,
for the invention of "improvements in
fastenings for braces, belts, bands, and other

like articles."


1875

1246. To Edward Lawley Parker, trading as Bent
and Parker, of Birmingham, in the county of
Warwick, Manufacturer, for the invention of
" improvements in braces or dress suspenders."

[Mike]

The First Reference to "Buttons Ltd" I can find in the London Gazette is January 1908

but back to the old copper website :

"
Buttons Ltd. Birmingham. Crossed swords trademark. 1907. Formed from a merger of three smaller factories, and now a division of Francis Sumner Engineering Co."

(interesting page with lots more of our manufacturer's on it)

Royal Marine Artillery and the Royal Marine Light Infantry amalgamated 1923 to form the Royal Marines
RSG amalgamated 1971

OK, Buttons Ltd, have been in the "Button" Business a while, but what about Cap Badges etc, consensus seems to be only a post WW2 manufacturer of badges proper ?? is this correct?

[erracht]

Great idea here! I've attached the two BUTTONS badges I have posted elsewhere (hopefully these redo's are a little clearer...)

Dean

BUTTONS LTD / B'HAM on a KC RA beret badge

BUTTONS LTD / BIRMINGHAM on a KC RAOC badge

[Mike]

excellent erracht, two different marks as well.

[rmarsden]

I know its not very clear but under an eyeglass B&P Birmingham hallmarks
for 1919,this is on a majors crown.

Ron

[Mike]

Originally Posted by rmarsden

I know its not very clear but under an eyeglass B&P Birmingham hallmarks
for 1919,this is on a majors crown.

Ron

That's interesting - is it the same as the one on the silvermarks site.? wonder why they have a 1869-1881 date - I thought B&P would be doing silver way beyond 1881.

[rmarsden]

Yes it is the same,I have also seen the same mark on Indian officers badges
1921 & 1924.

Ron

[KLR]

B & P were taken over by Gaunts in 1916. Some of their papers are with the Gaunt archives.

[Mike]

Originally Posted by KLR

B & P were taken over by Gaunts in 1916. Some of their papers are with the Gaunt archives.

yes - and I see this as our major stumbling block for trying to date or categorize things via company mergers/acquisitions. Gaunt was take over by Firmin in 1991 but appears to carry on in an autonomous fashion. So what about companies 50, 70 or a hundred years ago??

Firmin

Diana's Buttons


In our B & P example did Gaunt carry on with B & P dies and hallmarks after 1916?? Our future badge historian in 2106 might come to the conclusion the gaunt stamp was obsolete in 1991. We could probably come to an accurate conclusion on start dates for makers marks but perhaps not for end dates.

[KLR]

I think Gaunts were actually bought by someone else (can't remember who at the mo) in the 1970s, who were themselves taken over by Firmin later. I assume the Gaunt stamp was not used (officially) after the 1970s.

Gaunts might well have used B&P dies, but they can't have used B&P "hallmarks".

Gaunt also took over Jennens & Co in 1924 and the J&Co pattern badges they (Gaunts) produced over the next few years are stamped "JR GAUNT LONDON / LATE JENNENS".

[Keith Blakeman]

Originally Posted by KLR

I think Gaunts were actually bought by someone else (can't remember who at the mo) in the 1970s, who were themselves taken over by Firmin later. I assume the Gaunt stamp was not used (officially) after the 1970s.

I think it was the London Badge & Button Company.

[KLR]

that's the one !

(I just sent you the otc thing)

[Mike]

Originally Posted by KLR

Gaunts might well have used B&P dies, but they can't have used B&P "hallmarks".

.

If B&P continued beyond 1916 independently , I would say the "Makers Mark" hallmark would continue to be B&P from the B&P factory. Even though they were owned controlled and answerable to Gaunt. If not then "Makers Mark" actually means "Company Mark" which is not the impression I am under. -Although I may be wrong. But then it all depends if they continued or not, in their pre takeover form.

makers mark is whoever is registered with the assay office to submit the work, normally the maker.