British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum
ebay
'Badges/Patches' 'Militaria, Badges'    Medals

 Military Badges

 All British  WW1  WW2 WW1   WW2

Go Back   British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum > British Military Insignia > Royal Navy and Royal Marines

 Other Pages: Galleries, Links etc.
Glossary  Books by Forum Members     Canadian Pre 1914    CEF    CEF Badge Inscriptions   Canadian post 1920     Canadian post 1953     British Cavalry Badges     Makers' Marks    Pipers' Badges  Canadian Cloth Titles  Books
 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 10-07-14, 06:09 PM
paul w paul w is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 124
Default RMLI 1866-78 Officers Shako Plate

Guys, can I have some opinions please on this recent acquisition. I have some reservations about it which I'll explain later but fire away please, I'd appreciate any comments, cheers,

Paul
Attached Images
File Type: jpg CIMG0731.jpg (40.8 KB, 40 views)
File Type: jpg CIMG0732.jpg (42.1 KB, 42 views)
File Type: jpg CIMG0743.jpg (58.3 KB, 32 views)
File Type: jpg CIMG0744.jpg (56.0 KB, 29 views)
File Type: jpg CIMG0745.jpg (47.5 KB, 27 views)
File Type: jpg CIMG0742.jpg (40.7 KB, 27 views)
File Type: jpg CIMG0749.jpg (44.1 KB, 30 views)
File Type: jpg CIMG0766.jpg (43.6 KB, 26 views)
File Type: jpg CIMG0761.jpg (40.6 KB, 27 views)
File Type: jpg CIMG0763.jpg (32.9 KB, 23 views)
File Type: jpg CIMG0751.jpg (30.3 KB, 22 views)
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 10-07-14, 06:15 PM
paul w paul w is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 124
Default

Couple more pics.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg CIMG0738.jpg (37.9 KB, 16 views)
File Type: jpg CIMG0736.jpg (34.5 KB, 13 views)
File Type: jpg CIMG0737.jpg (32.7 KB, 11 views)
File Type: jpg CIMG0797.jpg (40.5 KB, 14 views)
File Type: jpg CIMG0798.jpg (34.4 KB, 11 views)
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 10-07-14, 07:00 PM
manchesters's Avatar
manchesters manchesters is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 4,049
Default

Looks nice and original to me.
Don't know what all the holes are about though?

Regards
__________________
Simon Butterworth

Manchester Regiment Collector
Rank, Prize & Trade Badges
British & Commonwealth Artillery Badges
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 10-07-14, 07:45 PM
Paddy's Avatar
Paddy Paddy is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Portsmouth Area
Posts: 809
Default

Paul

It looks good to me too. The enamel disc has the correct pattern in the metal behind the enamel, a little chipped but this is very common for these discs. The globe has the correct pattern land masses. The lug positioning and orientation look correct. I have attached a couple of pictures of the version that I have. The only real difference between the 2 is that mine is maker marked J&Co. The holes in the back plate look similar. The only reason I can find for these is that on mine these holes line up with the voiding in the laurel leaves on the Per Mare Per Terram part and when put together they allow some contrast in colour rather than having a solid gilt backing. The only thing I might have reservations about is - has it been re-gilded?. If it has then I would still be very happy with it and wish my version has as much gilt remaining.

Paddy
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 10-07-14, 08:08 PM
paul w paul w is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 124
Default

Hi Paddy, I had looked at your plate in your album as a comparison and as you can see its a pretty good match. My reservations are as follows. It is pristine, perhaps a little too pristine for a badge of that age but you could be right maybe its been re gilded. If you look at the back of the wreath its hollow backed. I've always believed RM officers plates to have semi hollow backs to the wreaths, look at your own, it looks to have a more 'solid' back to it and the definition isn't as distinct. This is the same on late Victorian and Kings crown era plates. The loops on the back, one of them appears to have a round 'base' to it, I could be wrong but I thought early badges didn't have a base or 'feet'. Lastly, I'd be interested to know how much your plate weighs in grams as compared to later kings crown plates its about 8 or 9 grams lighter. I could be paranoid of course but every thing gets faked nowadays and the points raised have got me wondering, any observations will be appreciated, cheers,

Paul
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 10-07-14, 08:12 PM
paul w paul w is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 124
Default

Heres another couple of pics of the back of the wreath and one from a kings crown plate for comparison.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg CIMG0758.jpg (40.9 KB, 12 views)
File Type: jpg CIMG0764.jpg (50.1 KB, 16 views)
File Type: jpg CIMG0771.jpg (32.0 KB, 14 views)
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 10-07-14, 08:37 PM
manchesters's Avatar
manchesters manchesters is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 4,049
Default

Paul,

It's an original, excellent HP which IMHO has not been re gilded.

Any variations are due to the varying dates they were made and by whom they were made.

Weighing and measuring badges will always produce a varying minute difference and is not a good way to determine authenticity.

Regards
__________________
Simon Butterworth

Manchester Regiment Collector
Rank, Prize & Trade Badges
British & Commonwealth Artillery Badges
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 10-07-14, 08:52 PM
Paddy's Avatar
Paddy Paddy is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Portsmouth Area
Posts: 809
Default

Paul

When I get a chance I'll weigh my badge and see if I can get a better pic of the front piece. In the meantime I've attached a picture of another front piece that I have, at some time it has been converted into an officer's glengarry badge which used the front piece from the 1866-78 plate. It has seen better days but you can see that it is die stamped like yours. I still think yours is good but possibly re-gilded. I've a couple of the older HPs and they are all gilded on the front but the back isn't usually gilded, why waste gilding on a part of the badge that isn't going to be seen. If your has been re-gilded then it may have been done in a tank which would have coated both front and back.

Paddy
Attached Images
File Type: jpg DSCN3515.jpg (112.8 KB, 15 views)
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 10-07-14, 09:14 PM
paul w paul w is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 124
Default

Cheers for that guys, the only other bugbear was the base of the loop, any thoughts on that?
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 20-07-14, 09:53 AM
Paddy's Avatar
Paddy Paddy is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Portsmouth Area
Posts: 809
Default

Paul

Apologies for the delay but I've just got round to taking mine apart. I've added a few more pictures below and for info my complete badge comes in at 42 grammes.

Paddy
Attached Images
File Type: jpg DSCN3977.jpg (101.8 KB, 8 views)
File Type: jpg DSCN3979.jpg (98.9 KB, 8 views)
File Type: jpg DSCN3982.jpg (84.4 KB, 8 views)
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 22-07-14, 03:05 PM
paul w paul w is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 124
Default

Thanks for that Paddy, I appreciate it,

Paul
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 06:30 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.