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Old 21-06-17, 04:09 AM
Lancer 17 Lancer 17 is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Melbourne Australia.
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Hello all

I was at the sigs museum at Simpson Barracks, Watsonia yesterday and have made enquiries Re shoulder titles as worn by the Corps of Signals. Last night I spent a long time putting up a detailed post but when I went to submit the system had timed me out and would not load the post and it was lost for ever so I have to now start again. Not happy Jan !!

The only shoulder titles on display with the first pattern large crossed flags badge is the slightly curved SIGALLERS shoulder title as seen in the photo in post 4 above.

The museum produced a small leaflet on badges, that is currently out of print, however, this only shows cap badges and not shoulder titles.

However we do hold a manuscript copy of an un published book by Major Graham Donley, RFD, (Ret'd) titled Australian CORPS OF SIGNALLERS 1906 - 1912. The subject of badges and shoulder titles is dealt with in chapter 4 on Uniforms starting on page 56 and states in parts :-

"The uniforms to be worn were promulgated in Orders for Dress and Clothing Military Forces of the Commonwealth, 1906, embodying amendments made up to 30th June 1907."

"Regimental hat and collar badges were stated to be used by the Australian Corps of Signallers, but as will be seen in the following Chapter approval was not given to a design until late 1909 which meant that for over half of its life the Corps did not have approved regimental hat or collar badges."

The crossed flags type 1 hat badge is then illustrated and is stated to be 540mm high (actually 54mm) and it is noted that "The collar badges were identical to the hat badge, non-opposing and 380mm high." This should be 38mm, read all measurements without the 0 on the end.

The Shoulder Titles are then illustrated and are shown to be the letters CAS in brass and are stated to be 180mm high and 380mm wide, (that should read 18 x 38mm), they are curved down at the ends.

The buttons are shown to have the KE V11 cypher.

He further notes that "In the Bob Gray collection in the Army Museum of South Australia there are examples of the Shoulder Title both curved and straight. One example is straight and has the number "7" above, another curved with the number "4" above."

Under Dress Regulations the officers are shown to not wear shoulder titles.

However Warrant Officers, Non Commissioned Officers and Men wear

"1 Full Dress, Commonwealth Pattern"

"2 Service Dress, Warrant Officers," and

"3 Service Dress for Non Commissioned Officers and Men"

All are shown to all wear Shoulder Titles in brass the letters CAS .

So there you go, I think that this now puts this issue to bed !!

The museum does have the pre WW1 Signallers uniform of Capt EW Downing that has the small crossed flag collar badges and also one on the cap, however, it has no shoulder titles.

So there you have it, the original shoulder titles were the brass letters CAS. It should be noted that the museum does not have an example for me to photograph, also this manuscript does not mention the SIGNALLERS title as seen in the photograph in post 4 above.

The museum also has a large framed presentation that containes a number of photographs.one is a group of 17 men and 1 officer, surrounding this are the named photographs of some of the men. Some can be seen (with a magnifying glass) to be wearing a 4 over CAS shoulder title. This presentation is dated July 8th 1911 and is of No 4 troop Australian Corps of Signallers champions 1910-11 and is presented to Leiut EW Downing as a token of esteem.

Well there you have it, I hope that this will now settle this matter, however we are now all looking for a CAS shoulder title. Good luck. It should also be noted that Cossum in his Part 2, 1900 - 30 book lists both ACS and CAS titles but not SIGNALLERS and does not illustrate either.

Regards

Phil.

Last edited by Lancer 17; 21-06-17 at 06:24 AM.
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