Hello Griff
I am sorry to tell you but IMO these wm collars are spurious too. How many do you want
?
To the best of my knowledge wm collars were not worn on Officers SD Jackets, only bronze for 17L and gilt for 17/21L I think (but I will look into that further), but happy to be corrected. None of which are documented/recorded to be of this flat pattern.
As you are aware I do not collect Officers kit but due to the fact that these 'Flat' collars have been turning up for years described as one thing or another, I have questioned their validity.
I spoke to & forwarded images to the late David Linaker in 2009 on this subject as just like Jerry I though I had the real thing.
David replied and I quote: 'Bad news I fear. I believe the 17L collar badges you have are Mrs Marsh No.1163. They are flat and bogus'
I think you'll find if you were to contact Gordon Dine he would express the same sentiments.
As for Verdigris being an indication of age, this is a chemical reaction to Copper, Brass on exposure to certain atmospheres, it can appear in a very short time subject to conditions, so no IMO, it is not an indication of substantial age.
Incidentally, were both of these items of uniform obtained from the same source?
Regards
Rob
PS are you 100% sure that mess kit is 17/21L? only the more I look at it etc. shouldn't there be some braid at cuff level?