Quote:
Originally Posted by Drew
That is absolutely fascinating. Thank you so much for taking the trouble to type it all out for us.
I hope you do not mind me asking about the blue on khaki embroidered title. The IWM version I saw did not come with a description of date, though I had always presumed it was from the 1917 'survey'. It is often described as WW1 in online auctions. For example, here
May I ask what your opinion is? If it were WW1 period, this would seem to contradict your statement that the London Scottish never wore embroidered titles at that period. I have, admittedly, never seen them in photos from the time.
Many thanks,
Chris |
Chris,
Many thanks for your thoughts on this and for bringing the blue on khaki shoulder title into the discussion.
You may recall from your visit to the IWM, that the file in which the cloth title pattern shown in your post is housed, contains a small hand-coloured drawing, a very poor rendition of which I attach herewith. I have not posted the actual drawing, as I do not have permission so to do from the IWM, therefore my clumsy interpretation will have to suffice for now.
As you can see, the drawing clearly shows the metal 'LONDON/SCOTTISH' [Westlake 1528] shoulder title, together with the 168 Brigade, 56th London Div., red, cloth (apex down) triangle:
JT Lon Scots Interp.jpg
The reason I draw your attention to this is because even though the blue on khaki 'London Scottish' shoulder titles are included within the file, they are not specifically referred to, especially with regard to the accompanying drawing, which leads me to wonder if their presence therein is anomalous.
I refer you also to the 1960 publication,
'The Uniform of the London Scottish 1895-1959' by J. O. Robson, wherein Robson tells us that:
'After the start of the war [WWI] the shoulder title T/14/COUNTY of LONDON [Westlake 1526] had been replaced by T/14/LONDON [Westlake 1527] which was much more easily read.'
He goes on to say:
'In 1915, when the 1st Battalion was in the 1st Guards Brigade, the shoulder title 'LONDON/SCOTTISH' [Westlake 1528] was adopted.'
This seems to be congruent with the wearing of the title seen in your superb photo of Pte. Fluck, and not at all at odds with what we already know.
Evidence that the London Scottish had up until the inter-war years not worn worsted shoulder titles comes in the form of the letter below, sent to the County of London T.A.A., by G. C. K. Clowes, the officer commanding the 14th Battalion, at that time:
14th Doc.jpg
This further supports the possibility that the blue on khaki titles are misplaced within the IWM file. In addition, Robson's book on the regiment's uniform records that for 1924, on joining, the following mess kit was issued to all NCOs and privates:
1. Two Khaki Jackets
2. Kilt
3. Khaki Trews
4. Boots
5. Full Web Equipment
6. Balmoral Bonnet
7. Khaki Hose (not issued)
8. Flashes
9. Cap Badge
10. Short Puttees
11. Greatcoat
12. Kit Bag
13. Grey Hose Tops (Regimental Issue).
Each man must buy at his own expense:
1. Glengarry
2. Regimental Cane
3. Sporran
4. Khaki Spats
5. Shoulder Titles 'London Scottish'.
The shoulder title described can, in my view, refer only to one specific pattern, and from this I assume that the matter of the regularising of shoulder titles for the London Scottish had not yet been conclusively resolved. This, again, supported by Clowes' letter above, dated 4th January 1924.
In 1936/7 (apologies, unsure of exact date) when the regiment was re-designated as 'The London Scottish, The Gordon Highlanders', a worsted shoulder title was issued which took the form 'LONDON' over 'GORDON' over 'SCOTTISH'. However, Robson tells us that this title was never worn.
By 1940, no shoulder titles were worn on the BD blouse, only the divisional, brigade and unit signs.
On the reconstitution of the Territorial Army on 1st May 1947, printed shoulder titles were issued: white 'LONDON SCOTTISH' on a red ground.
In closing, I have to say that like you, I have never seen any photographic evidence to date of the blue on khaki titles in use, either Great War period or otherwise. My suspicion that it was possibly worn [WW2] by the 3rd Battalion London Scottish (97th Anti-Aircraft Regiment) is yet to be confirmed, and I shall of course post any developments on that as soon as practicable.
Regards to all,
JT