[John Mulcahy]

Folks

I am looking for some help and education on the subject of the collar badges worn by officers of fusilier regiments in undress from 1900 - 1922.

My question is prompted by the illustration in "Crown & Company 1911 - 1922, 2nd Battalion Royal Dublin Fusiliers" of the upright grenade collar badges shown as no. 7 in the image below on the left. It is captioned as "Blue Undress - Collar Grenades, they appear to be silver & gilt. I have a similar pair, with different flame pattern, which I also attach. The book dates from 1923 and I assume the information that vertical collar badges were worn in undress is correct.

However it is my understanding that both the Blue Frock Coat and the Blue (or Scarlet for that matter) Patrol Jacket had upright collars, is it true that fusilier officers would have worn vertical grenades on such a collar? I have only found images of horizontal grenades in some quick searching.

I have a couple of questions.

Were the collars of Blue undress stand-up or were they modified to a roll collar or what is today called a notched collar such as on the service jacket image attached. If so does anyone have a date for the change?

Does anyone have evidence of vertical grenades being worn by fusilier officers in undress with stand up collars?

What I am trying to do is see if the vertical RMF collars , shown on the right, were ever worn in undress. They were certainly worn on service dress extensively but I can find no sign of them, yet , used on undress.

thanks in advance for helping me clear this up.

John