Many thanks Brent for your help, at least your info has pointed out that both the banner and 4th Batt couldn't have existed before 1911, so are NOT Volunteer period.
As you have mentioned, maybe these are just Gaunt trial badges, and they jumped the gun before the proper badge was agreed on (like including a hook on some of the 1911 formed badges).
Certainly they have found another use, as the 5 or 6 examples of the 4th Batt I have handled over the years are never in pristine conditioned, and are usually polished or missing the odd lug (though could be overzealous collectors polishing and mounting).
Many thanks again.
James
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